Should experiments on animals be completely banned?
For the fourth time, the Swiss people have rejected a ban on animal testing. The initiative, which was put to the vote on February 13, aimed to ban all experiments on humans and animals along with the import of new products developed using such methods. Parliament considers this to be too extreme and believes that the current legislation is sufficiently stringent.
What do you think? We are interested in your opinion.
From the article Swiss voters reject ban on animal testing
All those who voted against the ban should be put on a list to become the next test subjects. See how they like it. I bet they'll vote differently next time.
I find it interesting that people against the ban call themselves 'educated and intelligent.
Everything needs testing before being released to the public. I know it is cruel but what else do you do, you don’t test or do you test directly on humans then?
According to many researchers, experimentation on animals, which are basically of different species, is not reliable.
Inflict unspeakable suffering, medicines and other products intended for human use are not without side effects, sometimes severe.
A detta di tanti ricercatori , la sperimentazione su animali , che fondamentalmente sono di specie diversa , non é affidabile .
Infliggono indicibile sofferenza , i medicinali e altri prodotti destinati a utilizzo umano non sono privi di effetti collaterali , a volte anche severi
Yes, you should ban animal testing. The innocent animals are inflicted terrible suffering.
Are there clubs, associations that are committed to this? I would like to get in touch with them.
Ja, man sollte Tierversuchen verbieten. Die unschuldige Tiere wird schreckliches Leid zugefügt.
Gibt es Vereine, Verbände die sich hierfür engagieren? Ich möchte gerne mit denen in Verbindung treten.
This is over now.
What I notice as a resident only , is that some of these initiatives are very strange/limiting...
Personally I think it should have been to stop importing/producing any Cosmetics that have been tested on animals.. for starters... or maybe that happens now and I don't know about it.
Also, to stop producing/importing 'new' things that have been tested on animals...
Also, this thing of testing on animals... probably my Pharma drugs have been tested but why are we doing this is my question? An animal is an animal and I am a human being !!!
It is like carving up a dead body to see how a human body works, but it is dead and a live body is surely different to a dead one... I just don't get it...
But.... whether we test or not.. my doctor has still not given me any options to get off the blood pressure drugs I'm currently off; has still not warned me about stopping some of my practices - whatever that may be ; so ?? does my doctor really understand why I am sick in the first place???
I find it all very strange to say the least.... as is my refusal to go vegetarian.....
anyway, there will be another vote, I'm sure, for this in a few years... and slowly we change as human beings... some call it Evolution....others deny that.... 🤷♂️
The major point is that upon banning experimentation in Switzerland it will only be outsourced to the countries will less regulation and scrutiny, and certainly animal rights. Right now we have excellent protection of lab animals, none are used unless there is absolutely no way to replace them, and even then the procedures are meticulous to ensure every little bit is regulated and in favour of animal as possible. We must pride ourselves on such high standards of conduct, whereas the ban would result in orders of magnitude higher numbers of animals suffering, albeit in another country on our behalf. Until the pactice of animal testing is absolutely irreplaceable, we must set an example of how to do it best way, and hopefully soon we will be able to move away from it.
What is your life expectancy? Do you think you will live beyond 200 or 300 years or more? others have thought about it but have rarely lived beyond a century. You may be next.
qu'elle est votre espérance de vie? pensez-vous aller au-dela de 200 ou 300 ans ou plus? d'autres y ont pensés mais leur présence a rarement dépassé le siècle. Vous serez peut-être le prochain.
I am against animal experiments, although I know that many antibiotics were achieved through such experimentation.
Perhaps with virtual models it can be achieved without having to use living beings.
Estoy en contra de los experimentos con animales, aunque se que muchos antibióticos se lograron a través de dicha experimentacion.
Quizás con modelos virtuales se pueda lograr sin tener que usar seres vivos.
Unfortunately, animal testing is not an absolute indicator of safety assessment (as many people believe) because the physiological differences, called species differences, are so large. There have been many cases of drugs that did not cause any problems in animal experiments causing serious side effects, and the results of animal experiments alone cannot be used to confirm their efficacy and safety in the human body. Therefore, it is rational to eliminate the wasteful process of animal testing and focus on human clinical trials or safety confirmation using artificially cultured cells or chips (called alternative methods to animal testing). In Switzerland, animal testing has been abolished. If animal testing is abolished in Switzerland, it will be a blow to companies involved in animal testing, but a boost to those developing alternative methods, which will help to foster a healthier biotech industry.
The idea that animal testing is the only way to achieve safe drugs for humans is, in my opinion, an overconfidence in animal testing without having seen the serious side effects in the past. We should promote the development of alternative methods that would be more beneficial to both humans and animals.
種差と呼ばれる生理的な差があまりに大きいため、残念ながら（多くの人々が信じているほど）動物実験は絶対的な安全性評価の指標ではない。動物実験では問題のなかった薬で重篤な副作用を引き起こす事例は数多あり、動物実験の結果だけで人体における有効性や安全性を確認することができないのだ。動物実験をしたとしてもいずれにせよ最終的には人間での臨床試験を行ってみなければ安全性はわからないのだから、動物実験という無駄なプロセスを排して人間による臨床試験や（動物実験代替法と呼ばれる）人工的に培養された細胞やチップを用いた安全性確認へ注力することが合理的である。スイスにおいても動物実験が廃止されれば動物実験関連企業においては打撃になるだろうが、むしろ代替法の開発を進めている企業にとっては追い風になり、より健全なバイオ産業を育む機運が高まるだろう。
動物実験さえすれば人間にとって安全な医薬品が実現できると言う考えは、過去の重篤な副作用の事例を見ていない動物実験に対する過信であると思う。より人間と動物の両者にとって利益になるだろう代替法の発展を進めるべきである。
Even if we take prescription drugs, that's no reason to keep using other living things. We need to set goals to stop this. In the meantime, let's stop swallowing anything and everything. Even if we will lose a few days or years of our life.
même si nous prenons des médicaments sur ordonnance, ce n'est pas une raison pour continuer à utiliser d'autres être vivant. Il faut se donner des objectifs pour arrêter ça. En attendant arrêtons d'avaler tout et n'importe quoi. Même si nous allons perdre quelques jours ou années de notre vie.
your comment is partly in line with the quote I made here, a little further down in the comments:
"Animal testing has been central to toxicology practice for decades. But this approach, which involves a lot of time and money, is increasingly criticized. Specialists are therefore thinking about alternative methods. The most promising ones in recent years are based on advances in genomics and computer science." Thomas Hartung, Bloomberg School of Public Health, Johns-Hopkins University, Baltimore, USA in monthly 537
dated July-August 2018
I disagree with you on one point, it seems to me that unfortunately many totally unnecessary and very cruel experiments are still performed without any real will to reduce the suffering of the animals used.
votre commentaire rejoint en partie la citation que j'ai faite ici, un peu plus bas dans les commentaires :
"Les tests sur les animaux sont au coeur de la pratique en toxicologie depuis des décennies. Mais cette approche, qui suppose beaucoup de temps et d'argent, est de plus en plus critiquée. Des spécialistes réfléchissent donc à d'autres méthodes. Les plus prometteuses, ces dernières années, se fondent sur les progrès de la génomique et de l'informatique." Thomas Hartung, Bloomberg School of Public Health, université Johns-Hopkins, Baltimore, États-Unis dans mensuel 537
daté juillet-août 2018
je diverge avec vous sur un point, il me semble que malheureusement beaucoup d'expérimentations totalement inutiles et très cruelles sont encore pratiquées sans véritable volonté de réduire la souffrance des animaux utilisés.
how to answer such a caricatural comment...? by a question in return to your attention: would you mind to benefit from a kidney transplant if this one comes from a chinese prisoner from whom this kidney will have been taken to sell it? my answer: I could not accept such a thing. We all want to be treated, but there are ethical limits that should not be exceeded... whether it is a human or an animal. Please tell me what your position would be in this case?
comment répondre à un commentaire aussi caricatural...? par une question en retour à votre attention : cela vous dérangerait-il de bénéficier d'une greffe de rein si celui-ci provient d'un prisonnier chinois auquel on aura prélevé ce rein pour le revendre ? ma réponse : je ne pourrais pas accepter une telle chose. Nous voulons tous être soignés mais il y a des limites éthiques à ne pas dépasser... qu'il s'agisse d'humain oud 'animaux . Merci de me dire quelle serait votre position dans ce cas ?
I'm for
Clair, je suis pour
By searching a little you will find many articles on the question.
For example, here is an article that summarizes the current or possible alternative techniques in the short term, which will give you some ideas https://www.petafrance.com/nos-campagnes/experimentation/les-alternatives-aux-experiences-sur-les-animaux/
and an article on the advantages of alternative methods by expl in the case of toxicology for example https://www.wedemain.fr/inventer/tests-sur-animaux-bientot-une-alternative-plus-fiable-et-ethique_a3942-html/
en cherchant un peu vous trouverez de nombreux articles sur la question .
Voici par exemple un article qui fait la synthèse des techniques alternatives actuelles ou envisageables à court terme, cela vous donnera des pistes de réflexion https://www.petafrance.com/nos-campagnes/experimentation/les-alternatives-aux-experiences-sur-les-animaux/
et un article sur les avantages des méthodes alternatives par expl dans le cas de la toxicologie par exemple https://www.wedemain.fr/inventer/tests-sur-animaux-bientot-une-alternative-plus-fiable-et-ethique_a3942-html/
You certainly have your own way of thinking, but it is also true that human beings think the way they want.
vous avez certainement votre manière de penser, mais c'est vrai aussi que l'être humain réfléchit comme ça l'arange.
@LOL Important addition. Possibly a ban on animal testing for beauty products would find broader support.
@LOL Wichtige Ergänzung. Womöglich fände ein Tierversuchsverbot für Schönheitsprodukte eine breitere Zustimmung.
@LEA As journalists, we would also be interested in more concrete information. It is part of our job to uncover precisely such machinations. Thank you for your efforts.
@LEA Auch wir als Journalist:innen wären an konkreteren Hinweisen interessiert. Es zählt zu unserer Aufgabe, genau solche Machenschaften aufzudecken. Danke für Ihre Bemühungen.
Here are some examples of tested drugs that have very serious effects, showing that the famous tests on animals are far from being safe.
https://www.bfmtv.com/sante/depakine-et-grossesse-l-anti-epileptique-au-centre-d-un-nouveau-scandale-sanitaire_AV-201510150087.html
https://ccea.fr/medicaments-testes-les-animaux-effets-lhomme/
voici des exemple de médicaments testés qui ont de très graves effets comme quoi les fameux tests sur animaux sont loin d'être sûrs .
https://www.bfmtv.com/sante/depakine-et-grossesse-l-anti-epileptique-au-centre-d-un-nouveau-scandale-sanitaire_AV-201510150087.html
https://ccea.fr/medicaments-testes-les-animaux-effets-lhomme/
"Animal testing has been central to toxicology practice for decades. But this approach, which involves a lot of time and money, is increasingly criticized. Specialists are therefore thinking about alternative methods. The most promising ones in recent years are based on advances in genomics and computer science."
Thomas Hartung, Bloomberg School of Public Health, Johns-Hopkins University, Baltimore, USA in monthly 537
dated July-August 2018
"Les tests sur les animaux sont au coeur de la pratique en toxicologie depuis des décennies. Mais cette approche, qui suppose beaucoup de temps et d'argent, est de plus en plus critiquée. Des spécialistes réfléchissent donc à d'autres méthodes. Les plus prometteuses, ces dernières années, se fondent sur les progrès de la génomique et de l'informatique."
Thomas Hartung, Bloomberg School of Public Health, université Johns-Hopkins, Baltimore, États-Unis dans mensuel 537
daté juillet-août 2018
@LEA Thank you for these additions. Critical observation and monitoring of animal experiments is very welcome. Ultimately, it seems to be partly a dilemma whether human or animal suffering should be reduced; especially because the initiative also wants to ban human experimentation.
@LEA Danke für diese Ergänzungen. Eine kritische Beobachtung und Begleitung von Tierversuchen ist sehr zu begrüssen. Letztendlich scheint es teilweise ein Dilemma zu sein, ob menschliches oder tierisches Leid reduziert werden soll; insbesondere auch deshalb, weil die Initiative auch Menschenversuche verbieten möchte.
I don't think that all experiments on animals should end, because for the time being they are still important for the development of various medicines and therapies, which aim to protect the human being.
Now I completely agree that we should create tighter protection measures in order to protect the animals, dignifying and respecting their lives.
Eu não considero que todas as experiências com animais devam terminar, porque por enquanto as mesmas ainda são importantes para o desenvolvimento de vários medicamentos e terapias, que visam proteger o ser humano.
Agora sou totalmente de acordo que se crie medidas de protecção mais apertadas, no sentido de proteger os animais, dignificando e respeitando as suas vidas.
Will everyone be happy to have no modern medicines at all? When I need an operation, I would like to have a sedative, an anaesthetic and, if needed, a muscle relaxant. I’m sure the surgeons would also appreciate it if I am not screaming in agony on the operating table. If better drugs are developed we should have access too.
I want to have the choice to take paracetamol or ibuprofen if I have pain. Do we really want to stop those with chronic illnesses or cancer from access to new and innovative treatments?
Don’t forget about our pets and farm animals. Veterinary drugs are also tested on animals, and many start life as modifications of drugs which were developed for human disease.
Die Tierarzneimittel sind ein Aspekt, der in dieser Debatte oft vergessen wird. Danke für die Ergänzung.
You are welcome. My husband is a vet who has worked in clinical development and 3 of his projects are now licensed drugs for dogs and cats. One is used for arthritis treatment and post-operative pain. Both indications massively improving animals lives and directly preventing their suffering.
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