Until what age would you be willing to work before you retire?
On September 25, Swiss voters said “yes” to a pension reform that raises the retirement age for women from 64 to 65, the same as for men.
In response to an ageing population, some call for a gradual raising of the retirement age and see it as inevitable to keep the pension system alive. But how far should the retirement age be raised?
Until what age would you be willing to work before you retire, and for what reasons?
Join the discussion!
From the article Swiss pension reforms continue unabated
I to 60ig years
General:
- Who studies and physically does not work hard should work until 70ig.
- Those who work physically hard should be allowed to retire at 58.
Ich bis 60ig Jahre
Allgemein:
- Wer Studiert und körperlich nicht schwer arbeitet sollte bis 70ig arbeiten.
- Wer körperlich schwer arbeitet sollte mit 58ig in Pansion dürfen.
If health permits, I would only reduce the workload without quitting.
Se la salute lo permette, ridurrei solo il carico di lavoro senza smettere.
I would love to be able to stop before 65 (I'm 61) and enjoy my golden years. But I don't think I can meet my expenses if I don't have my full pension. I would like to be able to stay in Switzerland and not go abroad like so many others do.
But when I see that my neighbor was forced to sell his house by his bank when he retired... I fear the worst. At worst, I'll have the life annuity haha:):) I read the practical guide http://www.vendre-en-viager.ch and it looks like it could be a good solution. There was a report on TJ last week.
But as far as age goes, I personally voted against it, obviously. I understand the issue and respect the choice, but frankly, I'm worn out and would retire tomorrow! I've worked a lot and would like to enjoy
J'aimerais beaucoup pouvoir arrêter avant 65 ans (j'en ai 61) et profiter de mes belles années. Mais je ne pense pas pouvoir faire face à mes charges si je ne dispose pas de ma retraite complète. J'aimerais pouvoir rester en Suisse et ne pas partir à l'étranger comme tant d'autres font.
Mais quand je vois que mon voisin a été forcé de vendre sa maison par sa banque au moment où il est parti à la retraite... je crains le pire. Au pire, il me restera le viager haha:):) Je lis le guide pratique http://www.vendre-en-viager.ch et cela donne l'impression que ça peut être une bonne solution. Il y avait un reportage au TJ la semaine dernière.
Mais en ce qui concerne l'âge, j'ai personnellement voté contre, évidemment. Je comprends la problématique et respecte le choix, mais franchement, je suis usée et partirais bien en retraite demain!! J'ai beaucoup travaillé j'aimerais profiter
those who have the contributory method retirement claculum, should retire at the age they want, because they simply receive back what they have paid in, as long as the calculation produces enough net income to live on without needing to rclaim state aid i as they are considered "poor."
chi ha il clacolo della pensione con il metodo contributivo, dovrebbe andare in pensione all'età che vuole, perché riceve semplicemente indietro quello che ha versato, basta che il calcolo produca un reddito netto sufficiente per vivere senza bisogno di rhchiedere aiuti statali i quanto considerato "povero".
The "pension-refom" is a hot topic in Switzerland as everywhere in €Uropa. The FRG, where I lived & worked from 1980 on, spends today, according to official statistics, about 30% of its income from the GDP for social welfare. I am not aware of that for Switzerland, for example. The demography & the high life expectancy was at the time of the introduction by Bismarck in Germany a completely different. By the technical progress we live in the majority longer & healthier, the consequence of it is the problem for the pension. Who should work this out, if technology & automats need less and less people, who generate income & pay taxes? The World Economic Forum in Davos deals with this topic among others. Thereby also the ever greater wealth of fewer is to be discussed. It is foreseeable that this topic is treated with "pointed fingers", because the mantra of the eternal growth, several planets like our earth would need. Our spaceship earth, which lets us survive in a cold & dark universe, is so far the only thing we have. Another planet, in a habitable zone & light years distant, with liquid water, is not found yet.
Die "Renten-Refom ist in der Schweiz wie ueberall in €Uropa ein heisses Thema. Die BRD, in der ich von 1980 an gelebt & gearbeitet habe, gibt heut laut offizieller Statistik, ca. 30 % seiner Einnahmen aus dem BIP fuer Soziales aus. Das ist mir z. B. fuer die Schweiz nicht bekannt. Die Demographie & die hohe Lebenserwartung war zur Zeit der Einfuehrung durch Bismarck in Deutschland eine ganz Andere. Durch den technischen Fortschritt leben wir in der Mehrheit laenger & gesuender, die Folge davon ist ist das Problem fuer die Rente. Wer soll das erarbeiten, wenn Technologie & Automaten immer weniger Menschen benoetigen, die Einkommen erwirtschaften & Steuern zahlen? Das Welt-Wirtschafts-Forum in Davos behandelt dieses Thema unter Anderem. Dabei soll auch der immer groessere Reichtum weniger zur Sprache kommen. Es ist abzusehen, dass dieses Thema mit "spitzen Fingern" behandelt wird, weil das Mantra des ewigen Wachstums, mehrere Planten wie unsere Erde brauchen wuerde. Unser Raumschiff Erde, das uns in einem kalten & dunklen Universum ueberleben laesst, ist bis jetzt das Einzige was wir haben. Ein anderer Planet, in einer habitablen Zone & Lichtjahre entfernten, mit fluessigem Wasser, ist noch nicht gefunden.
Hello, over here in Italy after the latest reform we retire at 71 years of age, so dear Helvetic neighbors don't complain.
Salve, da noi in Italia dopo l'ultima riforma si và in pensione a regime a 71 anni, quindi cari confinanti Elvetici non vi lamentate.
If we introduce unconditional income + significantly fewer working hours per week + a VERY SIGNIFICANT tax increase for the rich + a lower retirement age (PROVIDING that those who want to continue working can continue working) = things would be very different.
However, this would mean a complete change in humanity's patterns of consciousness in the social order.
Если ввести безусловный доход + значительно меньше рабочих часов в неделю + ОЧЕНЬ ЗНАЧИТЕЛЬНО повысить налоги богачам + снизить пенсионный возраст (ПРИ УСЛОВИИ возможности продолжения работы тем, кто хочет продолжать) = было бы всё совсем по-другому.
Однако, это означает полное изменение шаблонов сознания человечества в общественном устройстве.
Hello, retirement in Russia is purely a procedure by documents and the pension itself is fake. For example, I have 59 years of service (75 years) in ruble terms, at the moment it is 20,000 rubles in CHF terms, this is 295 francs. Perhaps the officials have its size is greater.
So I'm 75 years old and I still work remotely.
You European and other rich countries will never understand us. As Dumas said, "If force is against you, you must obey it lest you perish.
We submit to it out of necessity. Do you think a weak old woman wants to stand up to rude men in helmets and with truncheons?
Здравствуйте,Выход на пенсию в России это чисто процедура по документам и сама пенсия фейковая. Например у меня при 59 стаже (75 лет) в рублевом исчислении на данный момент она составляет 20 тысяч рублей в пересчете на CHF это 295 франков. Возможно у чиновников ее размер больше.
Итак мне 75 лет и я работаю до сих пор,удаленно.
Вы европейские и другие обеспеченные страны никогда не поймете нас. Как говорил Дюма"если против вас сила, то вы ей подчинитесь,чтобы не погибнуть".
Подчиняемся по необходимости. Вы думаете слабая пожилая женщина захочет противостоять невоспитанным мужланам в касках и с дубинками наперевес???
I love my job and I can't imagine not being active; I will do it whatever my age, as far as possible; I am happy to see that other people can imagine it too!
I would like the state to support us by lowering our charges from the age of 70, or even to abolish them, for example, because we do not receive our pension.
J'aime beaucoup mon travail et je ne peux pas concevoir de ne pas être en activité; Je l'exercerai quelque soit l'âge, aussi loin que possible; Je suis heureuse de voir que d'autres personnes arrivent à le concevoir également!
J'aimerais que l'état nous soutienne en baissant nos charges à partir de 70 ans, , voire les supprime par exemple, car nous ne touchons pas notre retraite .
Working longer to 65 is reasonable. In the UK the retirement age in 2027 will be increased to 67 so thank your lucky stars your in Switzerland. Furthermore their is no more enforced retirement since 2011 from the employers in the UK. You can happily work until you drop😂
Lifespan is not the only determination factor. Health span is also now being factored in. It's highly unlikely that you will be fit enough to work on the building site at 65.
I work in the IT field. I will work for the rest of my life if my intelligence and memory are not impaired. And if they are impaired, I will look for a less skilled job and work fewer hours a week. Still, I hope to work until I die. Even if I have savings that will allow me not to work. I can't imagine myself as an unemployed retiree. I'm afraid that if I do, I might quickly degenerate as a person.
Я работаю в сфере IT. Я буду работать до конца жизни, если мой интеллект и память не будут нарушены. А если они будут нарушены, то я буду искать менее квалифицированную работу и работать меньше часов в неделю. Но всё равно я надеюсь работать до самой смерти. Даже если я буду иметь сбережения, которые позволят мне не работать. Я не могу представить себя безработным пенсионером. Я боюсь, что в таком случае я могу быстро деградировать как личность.
I agree, work ennobles man, and if you are in good health, I stress, retiring is really, as I think of it, a life change that could lead to depression by no longer feeling an active part in society.
Sono d'accordo, il lavoro nobilita l'uomo e se si è in buona salute, sottolineo, andare in pensione è veramente, per come la penso io, una cambiamento di vita che potrebbe portare alla depressione non sentendosi più parte attiva nella società.
I agree, the important thing is to have the environment that suits the person who is over 70 and not vice versa. This is because the physique anyway wears out, deteriorates with aging.
Condivido, l'importante è avere l'ambiente che si adatta alla persona che supera i 70 anni e non viceversa. Questo perché il fisico comunque si consuma, si deteriora con l'invecchiamento.
Why not? BUT! The retirement age MUST be no later than 60. And then those who WANT to work should have the right and opportunity to continue to work! And NOT forced!
Почему бы и нет? НО! Пенсионный возраст ДОЛЖЕН быть не позднее 60 лет. А потом те, кто ХОЧЕТ, должны иметь право и возможность работать и далее! А НЕ принудительно!
The question should be passed on to the employers and "gods in white"; up to what age should a person be able to work until he becomes disabled or dies?
Die Frage müsste man weiter leiten an die Arbeitgeber und "Götter in Weiss"; bis zu welchem Alter sollte ein Mensch arbeiten können bis er invalid wird oder stirbt?
It depends on the type of work you do. For example, if one has an occupation in the construction field (carpenter, mason, etc...) retiring before the age of 65 could preserve me from work-related injuries. Whereas if I carry out a sedentary occupation, I could imagine working past the age of 65. As for me beyond age I would focus on the size of the pension so that I can then lead a decent life.
Dipende dalla tipologia di lavoro che si svolge. Ad esempio se si un occupazione in campo edilizio (carpentiere, muratore ecc...) andare in pensione prima dei 65 anni potrebbe preservarmi da eventuali infortuni sul lavoro. Mentre se svolgo un’occupazione sedentaria, potrei immaginare di lavorare oltre i 65 anni. Per quanto mi riguarda al di là dell’età io mi focalizzerei sull’entità della pensione per poter condurre poi una vita dignitosa.
Yes I agree if the retired salary is much lower, the quality of life would suffer!
Si sono d'accordo se lo stipendio da pensionati è molto più basso, la qualità della vita ne risentirebbe!
Sedentary or mental? You can be sedentary as a janitor, security guard, but you can be an accountant, a lawyer, a teacher, etc. By the way, to keep working is in my opinion to push back the onset of dementia. That's helpful.
Сидячая или умственная? Можно сидячую понять как вахтер,охранник, но можно быть бухгалтером,юристом,преподавателем и т.д. Кстати продолжать работать это по-моему отодвинуть приход деменции. Это полезно.
I worked as a Swiss expatriate in Austria until the age of 57. I lost my job and despite my studies and work experience I could not find a job. It is contradictory to have to work as an employee until 65 or more years if you are too expensive and too old for the economy. I got so into a poverty trap and unemployed career. I say thank you to the system. And: not every woman has a partner in life .... who catches you.
Ich habe als Auslandsschweizerin in Österreich bis zum 57 Lebensjahr gearbeitet. Habe den Job verloren und trotz Studium und Berufserfahrung keine Anstellung mehr gefunden. Es ist widersprüchlich bis 65 oder mehr Jahre als Angestellte arbeiten zu müssen wenn du für die Wirtschaft zu teuer und zu alt bist. Ich bin so in eine Armutsfalle und Arbeitslosen Laufbahn geraten. Ich sage danke dem System. Und: nicht jede Frau hat einen Partner im Leben .... der dich auffängt
In recent years I have often come across the case of friends who at 57-58 years old lose their jobs and then-despite solid skills-don't receive job offers. In most cases they have situations that allow them to "get by," but some struggle more than others. By now, the job market tends to exclude you after a certain age, as Beatrice's contribution shows well
Negli ultimi anni mi sono imbattuto spesso nel caso di amici che a 57-58 anni perdono il lavoro e poi - nonostante le competenze solide - non ricevono offerte di lavoro. Nella maggioranza dei casi hanno situazioni che permettono loro di “tirare avanti”, ma alcuni fanno più fatica di altri. Ormai il mercato del lavoro tende ad escluderti dopo una certa età, come dimostra bene il contributo di Beatrice
I became unemployed at 57 and could not find a new job. Fortunately, my husband earns well. At 62, I officially became a pensioner here in Israel (meanwhile, the age is also being raised here, to 64).I enjoy every minute. Fortunately Israel has one of the best pension plans in the world, 4th place, Switzerland only 11th).
Ich wurde mit 57 arbeitslos und fand keine neue Stelle. Zum glück verdient mein mann gut. Mit 62 wurde ich hier in Israel offiziell pensionärin (unterdessen wird auch hier das alter erhöht, auf 64).ich geniesse jede Minute. Zum Glück hat Israel eines der besten altersvorsorgepläne der welt, 4.platz,Schweiz kommt nur auf den 11.)
Hello Trix, you describe one side of the coin. From the isr. AHV one cannot live, (2100.- ILS = approx. 600.- SFR) the obligatory pension fund was introduced only approx. 12 years ago, i.e. it has many old humans, who do not have a pension. In addition, not all of them work in well-paid professions and therefore receive a small pension contribution. I have earned as a nurse a quarter of the Swiss wage with known very high cost of living.
Hallo Trix, du beschreibst die eine Seite der Medaille. Von der isr. AHV kann man nicht leben, ( 2100.- ILS = ca 600.- SFR ) die obligatorische Pensionskasse wurde erst vor ca 12 Jahren eingefuehrt, d. h . es hat viele Alte Menschen, die keine Pensionsrente haben. Dazu kommt noch, dass nicht alle in gutbezahlten Berufen arbei(te)ten und somit auch einen kleinen Rentenbeitrag erhalten. Ich habe als Plegefachfrau einen Viertel verdient vom schweizer Lohn bei bekannterweise sehr hohen Lebenskosten.
I worked until I was 68 and enjoyed doing the work.
Ich habe bis zu meinem 68. Alter gearbeitet und habe gerne die Arbeit gemacht.
I consider it a fundamental right to be able to make my own decisions, to determine my own purpose in life. As long as I am fit, I would like to pursue my profession, if it's 93, great!!! However, not everyone is lucky in the work that determines income. Unhealthy atmosphere and/or physical wear and tear can make working life hell (the longer, the worse). Therefore, everyone should be allowed to decide for themselves, for example, from 60, whether and how long in what stint further....
Eigenständig entscheiden zu dürfen, mein Lebensinhalt selber zu bestimmen, betrachte ich als ein Grundrecht. Solange ich fit bin, möchte ich meinem Beruf nachgehen, wenn's 93 ist, toll!! Jedoch hat nicht jede(r) an der Arbeit, welche das Einkommen bestimmt, Glück. Ungesunde Atmosphäre und/körperlicher Verschleiss können das Berufsleben zur Hölle machen (je länger, desto schlimmer). Daher sollte jeder selber entscheiden dürfen, z.B. ab 60, ob und wie lange in welchem Pensum weiter....
Nothing else to talk about??? Boring!
Such a message is not cooperative. Too bad
Eine solche Meldung ist nicht kooperativ. Schade
Why did you log into the discussion board?
Warum hast du dich in die Diskussionsrunde eingeloggt?
Three answers, either you are young, or very rich, or stupid, and you have no sense of empathy at all. Or both.
Три варианта ответа,либо Вы молоды,либо очень богаты,либо глупы и у Вас нет чувства эмпатии совсем. Либо все вместе.
Why not? Always the same topics for days on end...boring.
Warum nicht? Tagelang immer die selben Themen...Langweilig.
And you apparently can't even count to 3...Three answers...or both???
Und Sie koennen anscheind noch nicht einmal bis 3 zaehlen...Drei Antworten...oder beides???
Depending on the type of activity, no one should work more than 30 or at most 35 years and have their retirement or pension at 55 and at most at 60. Although life expectancy has increased, this average does not correspond to all situations and diversity of social, physical, environmental and cultural conditions. The ideal would be to tend towards full employment, ensuring that people can begin their working lives between the ages of 20 and 25, thus guaranteeing a broad base to support a pay-as-you-go system that guarantees the sustainability of pensions and retirement benefits. In addition, retired or pensioned persons should have the right to continue working or to undertake another activity than the one in which they worked, but contributing a percentage to the pension funds.
Dependiendo del tipo de actividad nadie debería trabajar más de 30 o máximo 35 años y tener su jubilación o pensión desde los 55 y como máximo a los 60. Si bien la expectativa de vida se ha incrementado ese promedio no se condice con todas las situaciones y diversidad de condiciones sociales, físicas, ambientales y culturales. Lo ideal sería tender al pleno empleo asegurando que las personas puedan comenzar su vida laboral entre los 20 a 25 años garantizando así una amplia base para sostener un sistema de reparto que garantice sustentabilidad de jubilaciones y pensiones. Además las personas jubiladas o pensionadas deben tener el derecho de continuar trabajando o emprender otra actividad que en la que se desempeñaron pero aportando algún porcentaje para las cajas jubilatorias.
I agree, after 70 years of age, either very creative people, scientists, composers, painters or writers work. The rest of us work out of necessity.
If I was well off enough (I could travel, help poor homeless animals, attend concerts and exhibitions, museums and theaters).
learn languages, buy a house in a country where I could live comfortably, I would not work in my 75s.
Согласна,после 70 лет работают либо совсем творческие люди,ученые, ,композиторы,живописцы или писатели. Остальные работают по необходимости.
Если бы я была достаточно обеспечена (могла бы путешествовать,помогать бедным бездомным животным,посещать концерты и выставки,музеи и театры)
учить языки,купить жилье в той стране,в которой мне было бы комфортно жить,то я в свои 75 уже бы не работала.
I started working when I was 15 years old. First in Italy, and now in Switzerland. Next year I will retire at the age of 65. I have to say that while enjoying good health, it is really too much. In recent years the recovery phase has increased -- that is, you are always tired. All you do anymore is work, eat and sleep. I wonder if this is really the quality of life in a modern country like Switzerland ... at 60 you should be able to retire, with a pension you can live on, of course.
Ho incominciato a lavorare a 15 anni. Prima in Italia, ed ora in Svizzera. L‘anno prossimo mi pensionerò all’età di 65 anni. Devo dire che, pur godendo di una buona salute, é veramente troppo. Negli ultimi anni la fase di recupero é aumentata.. cioè si é sempre stanchi. Non fai più altro che lavoro, mangiare e dormire. Mi chiedo se questa sia veramente la qualità di vita di un paese moderno come la Svizzera… a 60 anni si dovrebbe poter andare in pensione, con una pensione da poter vivere, naturalmente.
We are living longer and longer.
Medicine is advancing and we have known that for 30 years.
We should have prepared for retirement....and the only way to do that is to save more. And by investing for the long term.
He who self-medicates and then protests against medical science is a fool. It was his responsibility. Not that of the "antibiotic".
The same goes for pensioners: they consumed and did not save for their retirement. They got what they consciously or unconsciously wanted: A mediocre retirement stage.
Cada vez vivimos más tiempo.
La medicina avanza y eso lo sabemos desde hace 30 años.
Debimos prepararnos para la etapa de jubilación....y la única forma de hacerlo es ahorrando más. E invirtiendo a largo plazo.
Aquel que se automedica y luego protesta contra la ciencia médica es un necio. Fue su responsabilidad. No la del "antibiótico".
AI igual los pensionados: Consumieron y no ahorraron para su etapa jubilatoria. Consiguieron lo que consciente o inconsientemente querían: Una mediocre etapa de retiro.
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