您是移民到瑞士的吗？请谈谈您的经历。
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我于 1998 年来到瑞士，在日内瓦生活和工作了 20 年。 我热爱瑞士的生活。 到了退休的时候，我很想搬到其他州去住。 遗憾的是，我的养老金不够，我将生活在贫困的边缘。 就像现在很多瑞士人一样，我去葡萄牙生活其实完全是出于经济原因。 如果我中了彩票，我会立即回去！
I came to Switzerland in 1998 and lived and worked in Geneva for 20 years. I loved living in Switzerland. Came the time to retire and I would have loved to move to another canton and stay. Sadly, with my pension I couldn't afford to, I would have been living on the edge of poverty. As so many Swiss do nowadays, I went to live in Portugal actually purely for economic reasons. If I were to win the lottery I would go back immediately!
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您好
bonjour
以下评论已自动从EN翻译成中文。
20 多年前，我遇到了一位瑞士姑娘，坠入爱河，搬到这里并娶了她。我们现在有 3 个一半瑞士一半荷兰血统的孩子。直到今天，我都不知道自己是爱上了这个女孩，还是爱上了她周围美丽的湖光山色。我的父母从小就带我到瓦莱州旅游，多年来，几乎每次学校放假我都会去瓦莱州，因此我对这个国家的旅游非常熟悉。但对我来说，瓦莱州始终是个谜。瑞士人似乎总是 "天命之子"。遥远而自信的历史（和地理）站在他们一边。现在，我嫁入瑞士，从另一个角度了解瑞士文化。令人着迷。对我来说，最大的迷思就是瑞士人的排外和保守。我发现情况恰恰相反。但这主要是针对家庭成员而言。在我的家乡荷兰，我们的家庭似乎并不那么稳固。人们很容易搬出自己的出生地，家庭关系也随之淡化。在这里，人们似乎不常搬家，家庭仍然是友谊的重要载体。____ 我严重低估了一件事，那就是到这里后找到一份 "与我水平相当 "的工作（我没有熟练掌握任何国家的语言）。为了和妻子在一起，我放弃了在荷兰的事业。但我一直没能继续下去。相反，我开始为自己工作。这非常容易（为瑞士人不妨碍创业的方式点赞）。____ 最后一个主题：开放。在这里，所有国籍的人都混杂在一起，这让我大开眼界。我孩子的大多数朋友都在瑞士以外的地方扎根。他们都为此感到自豪，并穿着第二故乡的球衣。我从未听过瑞士人抱怨他们 "缺乏爱国心"。对我来说，这也许是最珍贵的。我在世界各地长大，但总觉得自己是个局外人。在这里，社会似乎包容着不同的背景。
Over 20 years ago I met a Swiss girl, fell in love, moved here and married her. We now have 3 half Swiss, half Dutch children. To this day I don't know if I fell in love with the girl or her beautiful surroundings of lakes and mountains. My parents brought me to Valais as a child for just about each school holiday for years, so I'm familiar with the country as a tourist. But it always remained a bit of an enigma to me. The Swiss always seemed the "chosen people". Distant and confident history (and geography) was on their side. Now I am married into Swiss culture and I get to see it from the other side. Fascinating. The biggest myth that has crumbled for me is that of the xenophobic and reserved Swiss. I have found quite the opposite. But this holds largely only for family members. In my native Holland we don't seem to solidify as much within families. People easily move out of their region of birth and family relations get watered down. Here people don't seem to move as much and family remains a very important vector for friendship.____One thing I grossly underestimated was landing a job "at my level" once I got here (I didn't have a decent command of any national language). I gave up my career in Holland to be with my wife. But I've never been able to continue it. Instead I began working for myself. This was incredibly easy (kudos to the Swiss way of not getting in the way of entrepreneurship in this way).____Final theme: openness. I am absolutely blown away by the fact that all nationalities mix, here. Most of my children's friends have some roots outside of Switzerland. And they all feel comfortable begin proud of that and showing it by wearing football shirts of their second homeland. Never have I heard a Swiss person complain about this for "lack of patriotism". This is maybe the most precious to me. I've grown up being moved across the world, but I always felt an outsider. Here society seems to embrace different backgrounds.
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我随父母来到瑞士
I came to Switzerland with my parents
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我从 2005 年就来到这里，我的家人都留在巴西，当时我只带了两个小孩，我结婚后又生了一个孩子，现在我在这里又生活了 20 年，生活一点也不轻松，要找一份长期工作很复杂，因为你只有临时工，然后你又不工作了，每个月都有账单，但我没有收到任何工资，这让我的养老金积蓄都快用完了，我的生活也很艰难。他没有男朋友供养我，只能靠他前妻的一点钱维持生计，我也不经常在家里买吃的，社工也不帮我，因为我住的公寓合同不在我名下，因为我没有固定收入，也没有工作....。离婚给我留下了一笔债务，目前我必须长年累月地偿还这笔债务，而我的前夫已经还清了他 2.7 万的账单，我还剩下 2.5 万，我因为这种情况而郁郁寡欢。 我已经 45 岁了，他们不想再工作了，但 25 岁的年轻人却想工作。岁月流逝，我的儿子离开了我，剩下我和两个儿子生活在一起，一个是巴西人，另一个是意大利人，当然还有我的意大利父亲......我开了一家网店，做代购生意，但我还没能赚到钱，因为竞争激烈，每个人都想卖东西......我还没到 65 岁，但在那之前，我一分钱养老金都没有了。虽然我在瑞士没有上过全日制学校，但我也做过各种各样的工作，因此我一直在找工作，过了一段时间，我除了积蓄外什么都没有了，只能勉强度日。今天，我发现自己孤身一人，我的儿子在当服务员学徒，但由于是临时工，每小时挣的钱很少，他甚至无法养活自己......但我必须帮忙......另一个儿子周末和他父亲住在一起，但我认为他在家里不挨饿就好....。啊！RAV 我在这个机构待了两年，他们根本不帮我，甚至连工作面试都不给我。我不出门，因为我知道出门就意味着要消费，而我又没有钱来保证生活中的任何事情，所以我就郁闷地呆在家里，因为整个情况就是这样，在这里生活了 20 年，还带着孩子，穷得没有退休金，又老又离异......没有人关心我，他们只想占外国人的便宜。现在的问题是，如果我在这里的生存都快没了，我的生活该怎么办？即使回去也是不可能的，因为如果我在这里生活了 20 年都活不下去，我拿什么来养家糊口？这很困难，我正处在深渊的边缘......这很悲哀，但这就是现实......与此同时，我不停地请人帮我吃饭，账单正在蚕食我的积蓄，我已经一无所有了。我还没到 65 岁，我才 45 岁，一切都没了，我只能苟延残喘。感谢所有读到这篇文章的人。 Freundliche Grüsse De Castro
Estou aqui deste 2005, minha família ficou toda no Brasil e trouxe somente dois filhos pequenos na época, casei e tive mais um filho agora estou com mais 20 anos aqui e a vida não está sendo nada fácil, complicações para arrumar um emprego fixo pois temporário é o que tem e depois fica sem trabalhar novamente, as contas todos os meses entra e eu sem receber nenhuma entrada de salário , o que foi tocar nas minhas economias de pensão para sobreviver e até isso está acabando,..não tem namorado para me sustentar apenas um pouco do ex para sobreviver e ainda não compro comida com frequência em para casa, social não me ajuda porque causa do apartamento que moro pois o contrato não é em meu nome pois não tenho renda e nem trabalho fixo.. plano de saúde está pesando tofos os meses mesmo com Premiê ainda não apertado pagar todas as contas, o divórcio me deixou uma dívida que eu atualmente daqui que eu termine de pagar vai demorar anos e anos enquanto o ex já quitou a conta de 27k e eu fiquei com 25k, tenho depressão por causa dessa situação. tenho 45 anos e já isso não querem mais trabalhar e sim os jovens de 25 anos. Os anos se passaram e meu filho foi embora e fiquei morando com dois filhos, brasileiro e o outro italiano, meu pai italiano também é claro... abri uma loja virtual como dropshiping mas não consegui fazer lucro pois a concorrência está quebrando o pau em cima de todos para vender... E sem trabalho fora de casa e sim só investindo em vender, pedi tudo que tinha como aposentadoria, ainda não tenho 65 anos mas até lá não tenho mais nenhum centavo de pensão. Já até trabalhei em várias profissões mesmo sem escola íntegral na Suiça e assim fui buscando trabalho e depois de um tempo não tinha mais nada.. a não ser recorrer as economias para sobreviver. Hoje me encontro só, meu filho tem estágio de garçom mas como é temporário e ainda ganha pouco por hora não dar para ele nem se sustentar sozinho...e sim eu que tenho que ajudar...o outro fica com seu pai fins de semana mas acho bom se não ele passaria fome aqui em casa... Ah! RAV tive 2 anos com essa instituição, e não me ajudaram em nada, nenhuma entrevista de trabalho eles me proporcionaram. Sempre peço ajuda a um e outro para comprar um pouco de comida., Não saio de casa pois sei que sair sempre tem consumir alguma coisa e como não tenho dinheiro para garantir nada na vida, fico em casa me deprimidindo por causa dessa situação toda, 20 anos aqui morando e ainda com filhos, pobre sem aposentadoria, velha e divorciada.. ninguém se interessa e sim só querem se aproveitar das estrangeiras. E agora fica questão o que faço com a minha vida se a minha própria existência está morrendo aqui e ainda voltar seria impossível pois o que vou levar para sustentar a minha família se não tenho nem como sobreviver aqui depois de 20 anos? Tá difícil e eu estou na beira de um abismo... é triste mais é realidade enquanto isso fico pedindo a um e outro ajuda para comer, as contas está acabando com minha economias e assim não tenho mais nada. E ainda nao tengo 65 anos e 45 años e tudo já foi embora e eu fiquei na míngua. Obrigada quem for ler esse relato. Freundliche Grüsse De Castro
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两年半前，我和 9 岁的女儿因工作关系搬到了瑞士，我非常喜欢这个国家！瑞士有很多值得一去的地方，每个季节都有不同的活动......融入当地人很容易，我们尽可能说德语。
I got relocated to Switzerland with work 2 and a half years ago with my than 9 year old daughter and absolutely love it.__The system works, public transport couldn’t be better and the country is beautiful! So many things to do and visit and we have activities for every season…Integrating with the locals was easy and we try to speak German whenever possible.
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两年前，我和女友（瑞士人）搬到了瑞士。起初，我发现瑞士的就业市场比我在德国/卢森堡时要困难一些，但后来我在搬家前找到了一份工作。到目前为止，我在这里过得很开心。这里的工资很高，一切都 "行得通"，当然，这个国家也很美丽。当然，某些方面还有待改进，但这在任何地方都是一样的。
Ich bin vor 2 Jahren mit meiner Freundin in die Schweiz gezogen (die Schweizerin ist). Den Jobmarkt fand ich anfänglich etwas schwieriger als ich es in Deutschland/Luxemburg gewöhnt war, habe dann aber dennoch vor Umzug bereits einen Job gefunden. Ich bin bisher sehr zufrieden hier. Die Löhne sind gut, Dinge "funktionieren einfach" und das Land ist natürlich wunderschön. Klar gewisse Dinge könnten verbessert werden aber das ist ja überall so.
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1973 年，在另一个动荡的年代，我来到罗曼迪学习法语，在那里呆了一年，后来因为遇到了很多机会，我开始教英语，然后又从事了其他各种职业......我再也没有回头。____ 是的，从一个自己熟悉的舒适、安全的地方来到一个新的地方，挑战我们超越 "已知和可控 "的范围，去发现 "他人 "是如何看待我们的世界的，起初总是非常困难的。
I came to Romandie to study French in 1973, another troubled time, for a year and ended up teaching English then a variety of other professions due to the many opportunities I encountered ... and never looked back. ____Yes, it is always quite difficult at first to go from a comfortable, secure place one understands to a new one that challenges us to go beyond the "known and controlled" to discover how "others" see our world
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相对于所提供的质量，这里的一切都贵得不成比例。社会给人的感觉是过度管制和限制--总是 "不、不、不"。虽然可以赚取更高的收入，但生活成本也同样膨胀，导致生活质量得不到真正的改善。大多数城市和乡镇都非常沉闷，没有什么活力和激情可言。能吃到的美食极其有限，但价格却高得离谱，质量却差强人意。歧视不仅普遍存在，而且还被公开容忍，因为在这个国家，歧视不被视为犯罪。这里的冬天过于漫长，医疗保健和住房在经济上都难以为继。____2025 这将是我在这里的最后一年--我再也没有兴趣留下来了。
Everything here is disproportionately expensive relative to the quality offered. The society feels overly regulated and restrictive — a constant “no, no, no.” While it’s possible to earn a higher income, the cost of living is equally inflated, resulting in no real improvement in quality of life. Most cities and towns are seriously dull, with little to offer in terms of vibrancy or excitement. Access to good food is extremely limited, yet prices remain unjustifiably high for subpar quality. Discrimination is not only widespread but also publicly tolerated, as it is not treated as a crime in this country. The winters are excessively long, and both healthcare and housing are financially unsustainable.____2025 will be my final year here — I no longer have any interest in staying.
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@60seconds.info
哇！在 25 年前移民并成为瑞士人之后，我发现您的所有评论都与我的观点完全相反。我在美国长大，在法国生活了多年，我觉得这里的生活质量非常高。但这里不是天堂，任何国家都不是。妇女的权利和平等低于标准，是的，各种歧视都存在（和其他地方一样），包括年龄歧视。
wow! after immigrating 25 years ago and becoming Swiss as well, I find all of your comments as entirely polar opposite to what I'd share. literally the opposite of every comment I would share as my perspective and its why i became Swiss and will never leave. Having grown up in the US and spent years in France, I feel we have an incredibly high quality of life here. But it isn't paradise, not is any country. Women's rights and equity are below par and yes, descrimination of all kinds exists (as elsewhere), including age..
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我从 2016 年开始以德国人的身份在瑞士生活，我的伴侣（医生）后来也加入了我的行列。我们的两个孩子在这里出生，现在在瑞士（他们的祖国）成长。____ 现在，我作为DocsGoSwiss的自雇外籍建筑师，将我的知识传授给那些希望在瑞士生活和工作的医生。根据我的经验，瑞士的文化入职培训是确保医生及其家人从第一天起就有家的感觉、了解瑞士文化并学会生活的关键，从而为理解和融入瑞士奠定基础。由于德国和瑞士的雇主往往轻视这个问题，因此很快就会产生误解。这些都为再次离开瑞士埋下了隐患。
Seit 2016 lebe ich als Deutscher in der Schweiz - meine Partnerin (Ärztin) ist später nachgekommen. Und so sind inzwischen unsere beiden Kinder hier geboren und wachsen in der Schweiz auf - ihrer Heimat. ____Mein Wissen gebe ich inzwischen als Selbstständiger Auswander-Architekt von DocsGoSwiss an Ärzte und Ärztinen weiter, welche in der Schweiz Leben und Arbeiten wollen. Denn so meine Erfahrung, ist das kulturelle Onboarding in der Schweiz ein Schlüssel dafür, dass sich die Ärzte/Ärztinnen und ihre Familien vom ersten Tag wohl fühlen, die Kultur verstehen und leben lernen und damit die Basis für Verständnis und Integrations. Da dieses Thema von Deutschen und Schweizer Arbeitgebern oft unterschätzt wird, entstehen schnell Missverständnisse. Diese sind die Saat für den Gedanken, die Schweiz wieder zu verlassen.
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我们在这里住了几年，从未想过要留下来。___瑞士实在太贵了，在金钱方面是个 "泡沫"。___没有人（外国人）能负担得起退休后的生活，甚至瑞士人也做不到。我们在社会部门工作。___我们只是想要一个生活美好的环境。__我们努力工作，支付一切费用，包括 AHV、医疗保险、房租......像其他人（瑞士人）一样。我们和这个国家的其他人（瑞士人）一样，但我们要对没有经济适用房的事实负责，我们还要对其他一切负责。我们原本想多待一段时间，但我们现在决定，我们不想再当鞭子，不想再离开这个国家了......不是因为这里不适合居住，而是因为我们的贡献根本得不到尊重。___我想说清楚，这不是关于所有人和所有事。___穆特......如果他们不想要我们......好吧......__我们在拖车上没有房子或公寓，以免给瑞士的建设造成负担......__祝瑞士人在没有外国工人的情况下解决他们的问题。__我是很认真的。____ 一个德国移民，然后是一个移民。
Wir leben seit ein paar Jahren hier und hatten tatsächlich nie vor hier zu bleiben.__Die Schweiz ist schlicht zu teuer und eine "Bubble", was Geld betrifft..__Das kann sich kein (Ausländer) im Alter leisten..nicht mal die Schweizer bekommen das hin.__Da ich selbst schon früher hier gewohnt habe und die schweizer Mentalität nie ganz verstanden habe, stand das auch anderweitig nie zur Debatte.__Um Spekulationen vorzugreifen :__Es ging uns nie nur um Geld oder sonstige Geldwerte Vergünstigungen.__Wir arbeiten im Sozialbereich .__Wir wollten schlicht ein lebenswertes Umfeld.__Leider ist es so, daß man als Ausländer ( und hier ist es egal von woher) grundsätzlich Diskriminierung ausgesetzt ist.__Wir sind hier gefühlt an allem Schuld, was nicht funktioniert.__Wir arbeiten viel und bezahlen alles incl der AHV, Krankenversicherung, Miete..was auch immer.. genauso wie jeder andere (Schweizer) in diesem Land auch, werden aber dafür verantwortlich gemacht, daß keine Wohnungen da sind, die bezahlbar wären und auch sonst sind wir an allem Schuld.__Wir wollten ursprünglich länger bleiben, haben aber jetzt beschlossen, daß wir keine Lust mehr haben der Prügelknabe zu sein und das Land wieder zu verlassen...__Nicht, weil es hier nicht schön, oder lebenswert wäre, sondern, weil der Respekt vor unserem Beitrag schlicht nicht vorhanden ist.__Ich möchte ganz klar verstanden wissen, daß das durchaus nicht jeden und alles betrifft.__Aber.. wenn wir nicht erwünscht sind... OK..__Wir haben eben kein Haus oder eine Wohnung an der Anhängerkupplung, um das schweizer Konstrukt ja nicht zu belasten..__Viel Glück den Schweizern beim lösen Ihrer Probleme ohne ausländische Arbeitnehmer.__Und das meine ich völlig ernst.____Ein deutscher Zu- und wieder Abwanderer.
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将近 20 年前，我在学徒期满后，因为一份意外的工作机会，直接移民到了德国。最初几年，工资很低，生存非常困难。如今，我在瑞士人不愿意干的行业（夜班、铁路建设）工作，而且工资很高。___政府部门的工作迅速而高效，我看到我的税收得到了很好的投资--这一点与德国不同。瑞士人非常友好，人际关系融洽，比德国人更友好。___我对目前与欧盟的和解持批评态度，我认为这将以灾难告终。 布鲁塞尔的集中管理也会毁了瑞士，迫切需要完全脱钩，以保护我们作为公民的权利。___我能否在瑞士度过退休生活取决于我的养老金和明天的政治决定。回到德国对我来说不是一个选项；方案 B 设想在东南亚退休。
Ich bin vor knapp 20 Jahren direkt nach der Lehre in Deutschland spontan, auf Grund eines unerwarteten Jobangebote eingewandert. Die ersten Jahre war es sehr schwer mit einem tiefen Salär zu überleben. __Jetzt arbeite ich in einer Branche in der Schweizer nicht arbeiten wollen(Nachtschicht, Gleisbau) und werde gut bezahlt.__Die Behörden arbeiten schnell und effektiv und ich sehe, dass meine Steuern gut investiert werden - im Gegensatz zu Deutschland. __Die Schweizer sind sehr freundlich und zwischen menschliche Beziehungen herzlich, mehr so als in Deutschland.__Kritisch sehe ich die derzeitige Annäherung an die EU, die aus meiner Sicht katastrophal enden wird. Die zentralistische Steuerung aus Brüssel wird auch die Schweiz ruinieren, eine vollständige Abkoppelung ist dringend nötig, um unsere bürgerlichen Rechte zu schützen.__Ob ich meine Rente in der Schweiz verbringen kann, bleibt fraglich und hängt von der Pension und den politischen Entscheidungen der Zukunft ab. Ein Verbleib hier im Lande wäre allerdings wünschenswert.__Eine Rückkehr nach Deutschland wird es für mich auf keinen Fall geben, es läuft im Szenario B auf den Lebensabend in Südost Asien hinaus.
以下评论已自动从EN翻译成中文。
经济学专业毕业后，我在伯尔尼地区申请了 80 多份工作。运气不好，一次面试都没有。我在英国申请了三份工作，三份都收到了邀请，并收到了两份工作邀请。于是我搬到了英国。在那里的 IT 部门工作了几年后，我再次尝试自己的运气。我通过一家隐藏求职者姓名的人力资源中介公司申请工作。宾果，我收到了十几份面试邀请，但没人要我。我继续工作，后来作为公司调动的一部分，我从伦敦搬到了瑞士。他们根据当地水平调整了我的薪水，所以我现在在苏黎世地区的奢侈生活中畅游。这里的工资很高，很干净，风景优美，通往其他国家的交通也非常便利。我没有什么可抱怨的。与英国相比，这里的生活水平有所提高。我有欧盟 B 类居留证。总而言之，我认为即使在IT行业，如果你是有色人种，也很难找到工作。瑞士人友善有礼，但他们会礼貌地拒绝你。我发现，在我所在的公司，在其他部门，如果你是白人、基督徒、有类似的文化背景，并且来自德国或法国，那么你会更容易在瑞士找到工作。如果你的名字听起来不像欧洲人，而且皮肤较黑，很抱歉，你将很难找到工作。不过，我很欣赏瑞士人在这方面的严谨态度，否则就会出现像法国或德国某些地区那样的情况。苏黎世的某些地区已经很混乱了，尤其是火车站周围。人们试图贩卖毒品，在公共场所酗酒，街道脏乱不堪，等等，而且几乎看不到瑞士人。大部分地区都是来自阿富汗、厄立特里亚、乌克兰、叙利亚等国的新难民。毫无疑问，这些国家有很多好人，但也有很多人不适应瑞士的法律和规则，作为瑞士人欢迎的 "需要安全保障的人"，他们使其他人的生活更不安全。我认为这正是政府需要努力的地方，但对于其他人来说，一切都很好，我很高兴能在这里生活，并作为一名好公民在税收方面为社会做出贡献。
After finishing my Bachelors degree in Economics, I applied for over 80 jobs in the region Bern. No luck, no single interviews. I apply for 3 positions in England, got invited for all three and got two job offers. So I moved to England. After working there for several years in IT sector, tried my luck again. I applied from a HR broker who hides the names when applying. Bingo, I got about a dozen invitations for interviews but no one took me. I continued my job and later relocated to Switzerland from London through company transfer. They adjusted by salary to local level, so Im now swimming in Luxury in Zurich area. Payment is great, its clean, beautiful and access to other countries is really great. I have nothing to complain at all. Life standard has grown in comparison to UK. I have an EU B Permit. __All in all, I would say, even in IT sector, if you are a coloured person, you will have lots of difficulties getting a place. Swiss are friendly and polite people but they reject you politely. I can see in my company in other departments, if you are white, christian and have similar cultures and come from Germany or France, it will be easier for you to get a job in Switzerland. If you have non-European sounding name, have darker skin, sorry to say this but it will be very hard for you. Still, I like the fact that the Swiss are rigid in this case, otherwise we will have a situation like in France or some part of Germany here. Some part of Zurich are already chaotic, specially around the train station. People trying to sell drugs, rough drinking in public area, dirty streets etc. and you barely see any Swiss. Most areas are covered by recent refugees from Afghanistan, Eritrea, Ukraine, Syria etc. No doubt that there are many nice people from these countries but there are also many who do not adapt to Swiss law and rules and as a person who were welcomed by the Swiss as " those who need safety", they are making other peoples lives less safer. I think, this is the area where the government has lot to work on but everything else, its perfect and im happy to be here and contributing to the society in terms of tax and as a good citizen.
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我大约 16 年前来到瑞士，现在从事公共行政工作。显示瑞士公务员国籍的图表主要是瑞士人，来自欧盟的雇员很少，来自其他国家的雇员就更少（就我而言）。____ 能有今天，我感到非常幸运，也非常自豪。瑞士是我的家，就像我的祖国一样。分属两个不同地方的感觉很奇怪，但也很有成就感，但这并不意味着很容易。____ 作为一个试图融入社会的移民，你永远是孤独的，因为你永远是一群瑞士人中的移民。你会错过某些线索、某些笑话、某些语境、某些表达方式等等。德语也无济于事。是的，我们可以是高素质人才，但有时这在瑞士完全没有意义，这可能会令人沮丧。我完全理解那些离开瑞士的移民。____ 另一方面，如果你是一群移民中的移民，你将始终有一个共同点：每个人都是移民。你并不那么孤独，但你可能会错过探索和了解丰富多彩、引人入胜的文化的机会。呆在移民圈子里很好，也很舒服。比起德语，我更喜欢英语一千倍。但走出舒适区也是一种奇妙的体验。发现瑞士是一种非凡的体验。这就是为什么我也理解那些留下来的移民。____ 融合是困难的，需要不断努力，但只要有时间和耐心，这一切都是值得的。
I came to Switzerland around 16 years ago, and nowadays, I work in public administration. The graph showing the nationality of public servants in Switzerland was predominantly Swiss, with very few employees from EU, and even less from other countries (my case). ____I feel very lucky to be where I am today, and also very proud. Switzerland is my home, as much as my country of origin. It's weird belonging to two different places, but also rewarding, which doesn't mean easy. ____As an immigrant trying to integrate, you will always be alone, in the sense that you will always be the immigrant in a group of Swiss nationals. You will miss certain cues, certain jokes, contexts, expressions, etc. German does not make anything easy, as well. And yes, we can be highly qualified, but that can sometimes mean absolutely nothing in Switzerland, which can be frustrating. I certainly understand the immigrants who leave.____On the other hand, if you're an immigrant in a group of immigrants, you will always have a common denominator: everyone is an immigrant. You're not so alone, but then you might miss chances to explore and understand a rich and intriguing culture. Staying in the immigrant bubble is great, and comfy. I prefer English a thousand times over German. But getting out of our comfort zone is also a fantastic experience. Discovering Switzerland is amazing. That's why I also understand the immigrants who stay.____Integration is hard, and a continuous effort, but with time and patience, it is absolutely worth it.
以下评论已自动从EN翻译成中文。
我从斯洛文尼亚搬到这里，现在从事 IT 工作。整个过程非常顺利，官僚主义最少，每个人都非常友好。____Je 能说一口流利的德语，我认为这对融入当地社会以及人们接受你的方式起到了重要作用。但我也会适应当地的风俗习惯--我认为作为外国人，你必须知道你是客人，你必须尊重你的主人。我认为这就是欧洲移民的主要问题：人们来自国外，却不融入社会，不尊重社会规范。____ 在斯洛文尼亚，我们常说要成为第二个瑞士，自从我在这里生活以来，我越来越认同这个目标--这里的人们彬彬有礼，一切都很干净，基础设施良好，公共服务真正为人民服务，等等。生活质量非常高。
I moved from Slovenia and work in IT. The process was very smooth, minimum bureaucracy, and everyone is super friendly. ____I speak fluent German so I think it plays a big part in the integration and how people accept you. But I also adapt to the local customs - I think as a foreigner you need to know you are a guest and you need to respect your host. I think this is the main problem with immigration in Europe - people come from abroad and do not integrate in the society and follow its norms. ____In Slovenia we always say we want to be the second Switzerland, and since living here I can only agree to that goal more and more - the people are polite, everything is clean, the infrastructure is good, the public services are really a service to the people etc. The quality of life is very high.
以下评论已自动从FR翻译成中文。
@Sloch
生活质量的含义
que veut dire qualite de vie
以下评论已自动从EN翻译成中文。
苏黎世州和楚格州在许可证、汽车登记和其他要求方面的政府服务形成了鲜明的对比。苏黎世州的官员待人和蔼可亲，这就是附加值的体现，而楚格州的官员则似乎大权在握。在与其他成绩优秀的移民讨论这个问题时，大家的共识似乎是楚格很小；就在二三十年前，它还是一个有着小村庄态度的农庄。为什么呢？瑞士公民可以获得英国永久居留权，而无需满足语言融入的要求。而在瑞士，英国公民却没有这种待遇。如果不能留住最优秀的人才，公司就无法具有竞争力。坦率地说，瑞士人由于继承了学徒制的传统，又缺乏毕业生经理人，因此竞争能力将越来越弱，而且存在着一种真正的危险，即公司将其劳动力转移到更容易获得顶尖人才的国家。
Having moved to Switzerland due to a being head hunted, one can say that in Government services to do with permits, car registration and other requirements, there is a stark contrast between the Kantons of Zurich and Zug. Whilst public servants in Zurich have been pleasant to deal with - an example of adding value, Zug on the other hand seems to have public servants that behave like they have power of people. When discussing this with other immigrant high achievers, the consensus seems to be do with the fact that Zug is small; only 20 - 30 years ago they were a farming village and the attitudes of small village.__.__It has also been noted that the agreement between the United Kingdom and Switzerland of 2019 (Brexit agreement), fails in its parity for Swiss citizens in the UK and British citizens in Switzerland. __.__Why? __.__Swiss citizens can obtain a permanent resident permit (indefinite leave to remain) in the UK, without the integration requirement of language. Which is not the case in Switzerland for British citizens.__.__Without being able to retain top talent, business cannot compete. Frankly, the Swiss, due to their legacy of the apprenticeship work approach and lack of phD qualified c suite will increasingly not be able to compete and there is the real danger of businesses shifting workforce to countries where the high education talent is more accessible.__.__Smile, shake your head and wait is not a long term strategy in todays world.
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我是西班牙人，三岁时来到瑞士。我在瑞士法语区完成了所有学业。其他的我一无所知：我已经在这里生活了 37 年。____ 但我被告知，要获得瑞士国籍，我必须通过复杂的行政程序并支付一大笔钱。老实说，这让我很苦恼。____ 像许多其他欧盟国家的公民一样，他们 90% 以上的时间都在瑞士度过，因此在欧洲其他地方退休的想法似乎非常合乎逻辑。我们并不觉得瑞士联邦想把我们留在这里。____ 很明显，这种感觉与生活经验无关，生活经验很好。这只是这个美丽国家的另一个行政荒唐。
D’origine espagnole, je suis arrivé en Suisse à l’âge de trois ans. J’ai fait toute ma scolarité en Suisse romande. Je ne connais rien d’autre : cela fait maintenant 37 ans que je vis ici.____Pourtant, on me dit que pour obtenir la nationalité suisse, je dois suivre une procédure administrative lourde et payer une somme conséquente. Honnêtement, c’est vexant.____Comme beaucoup d’autres ressortissants de l’UE qui ont passé plus de 90 % de leur vie en Suisse, l’idée de prendre ma retraite ailleurs en Europe semble finalement assez logique. On n’a pas vraiment l’impression que la Confédération ait envie de nous garder.____Évidemment, ce ressenti n’a rien à voir avec l’expérience de vie, qui est excellente. C’est juste une absurdité administrative de plus dans ce beau pays.
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@BDAM
"我们并不觉得联邦想把我们留在这里。问题出在 Kantons，更具体地说是州移民局的工作人员身上。我注意到，大多数工作人员都没有接受过高等教育，比如硕士或博士学位，因此他们的行为就像'共产主义者'一样，享受着他们对公众所拥有的权力。我有一个西班牙朋友，持有西班牙护照后，我了解到，你几乎可以在任何一个拉美国家生活，并在 1 年（阿根廷）至 5 年（智利）后获得护照。更重要的是，西班牙护照持有者可以免签进入许多其他国家。我的朋友计划明年拿到 C 类居留许可，然后搁置四年，拿到智利和英国护照（他有一个智利女友和一个英国伴侣）。然后他将返回瑞士工作，并最终申请瑞士护照。正如安德鲁-亨德森所说："去待遇最好的地方"。
"We don't really get the impression that the Confederation wants to keep us here”__.__I would argue the confederation does. The issue is with the Kantons and more specifically the staff within the State migration services. I have noted that most of the staff do not have a higher education, such as a masters or PhD and therefore fall into the trap of behaving like ‘communists’; enjoying having power over the public. __.__I have a Spanish friend and with a Spanish passport, I learned that one can live in almost any latin American country and obtain their passport after 1 (Argentina) to 5 years (Chile). In addition, the Spanish passport holder has visa-free access to is more. My friend plans to get his C permit next year, then put it on hold for four years, get his Chilean and UK passports (he has Chilean girlfriend and IDLTR in UK). He will then return to CH to work and possibly apply for Swiss passport down the road.__.__As Andrew Henderson says; “Go where you are treated best”.
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@BDAM
对我来说也是如此；当我要求成为瑞士人时，我被收取了 10000 瑞士法郎的费用；退休后，我只花了 300 瑞士法郎；瑞士和金钱之间发生了一段美丽的爱情故事。
POUR MOI CE FUT LA MEME CHOSE;QUAND J'AI DEMANDE A ETRE SUISSE ONT M'AS RECLAME 10000 SFR;A MA RETRAITE CELA M'AS COUTE 300sfr;LA SUISSE ET L'ARGENT UNE HISTOIRE D'AMOUR VICIEUSE
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@BDAM
大多数人没有意识到，入籍需要满足一定的标准，并通过申请人居住的市镇和州提出申请。____，这就是区别所在。入籍规则并非由联邦政府制定
Most don't realise that naturalisation involves fulfilling certain criteria and applying through the commune (municipality) and canton where the applicant resides. ____Therein lies the difference. It is not the federal administration that sets naturalisation rules
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我是葡萄牙人，出生在安哥拉，途经伊朗（当时伊朗还是一个体面的国家），然后幸运地去了瑞士。我开始在苏黎世 "Fischerstube "湖边的一家餐馆工作，然后回到葡萄牙，不久又在 "Gesundheitszentrum für das Alter Entlisberg "工作，最后在 "Pro Senectute Kanton Zürich "工作多年。__我和妻子在瑞士非常幸福，我的卢索/瑞士孩子们也生活在那里。____ 我想补充一点，我们很遗憾自愿离开了我所怀念的瑞士。我几乎每年都会访问这个神奇的国家。
Sou Português nascido em Angola, passei pelo Irão (quando era um País decente) e logo após fui para a Suiça Felizmente. Comecei trabalhando num restaurante em Zurique, à beira do lago "Fischerstube", voltei a Portugal e logo de seguida novo trabalho no __"Gesundheitszentrum für das Alter Entlisberg" e finalmente e durante muitos anos na "Pro Senectute Kanton Zürich".__Fomos muito felizes eu e minha Mulher na Suiça onde tenho os meus filhos Luso/Suiços vivendo.____Acrescentar que estamos arrependidos de termos deixado, voluntàriamente, a Suiça de que tenho saudades. Para mitigar visito quase todos os anos o maravilhoso País.
以下评论已自动从FR翻译成中文。
我爱这里的人民和这个美丽、干净的小国。公共服务非常好。我这辈子从没享受过这么好的待遇。我真的很感动。我预约办理护照，一切都提前办好了，超出了我的预期。每次与政府部门联系，我都能得到优质的服务。我正在学习语言并成为一名护理助理，这既快捷又高效。我可以找到工作并谋生。三个月后，我开始工作，至今已干了四年。
J'aime les gens et ce petit pays magnifique et propre. Les services publics sont excellents. Je n'ai jamais été aussi bien traitée de ma vie. Je suis vraiment impressionnée. J'ai pris rendez-vous pour obtenir un passeport et tout a été réglé avant l'heure prévue, dépassant toutes mes attentes. Chaque fois que je contacte les autorités, je reçois un excellent service. J'étudie la langue et je suis en train de devenir aide-soignante, ce qui est efficace et rapide. Je peux trouver du travail et gagner ma vie. Après trois mois, j'ai commencé à travailler et je continue depuis quatre ans.
以下评论已自动从EN翻译成中文。
@Metta.M
你最初来自哪个国家
Which country were you from originally
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J'ai immigré en Suisse à la fin de l'année 2022 avec ma femme, qui a grandi ici, et mes quatre enfants. Nous avions acheté une vieille maison de famille dans un petit village... rendu possible en partie par la générosité de mon beau-père et la plupart de nos économies de toute une vie. L'idée initiale était de garder la maison dans la famille et de la louer comme maison de vacances pour payer les dépenses, ainsi que pour avoir un endroit où séjourner lorsque nous venions en vacances. Ma femme a vécu heureuse dans le Midwest américain pendant 16 ans, où nous avons construit une maison et fondé notre famille. Pour de nombreuses raisons, nous avons décidé que le moment était venu de vendre notre maison aux États-Unis et de nous installer en Suisse. L'une des principales raisons était d'être proche de son père, qui prenait de l'âge et avait des problèmes de mémoire. Les autres raisons étaient d'exposer les enfants à la culture de ma femme, d'investir dans la patrie de ma femme par le biais de la communauté, de l'église et de l'engagement culturel, et tout simplement de profiter de la vie rurale suisse ! Nous avons passé 11 semaines en Suisse en tant que vacances de rattrapage et nous avons été convaincus que nous devions nous installer en Suisse. Comme pour la plupart des changements de vie, il y a eu la période de lune de miel.... Tout était mieux en Suisse ! Nous pouvions donner à nos enfants beaucoup plus de liberté pour sortir et se promener, la qualité de la nourriture, de l'eau, du système de transport... Presque tout semblait supérieur à ce à quoi nous étions habitués. Les gens étaient amicaux et intéressés par notre histoire. Les gens nous ont aidés et encouragés dans notre lutte linguistique. Nous avons apprécié les vues époustouflantes qui s'offraient à nous à chaque virage en voiture et sur chaque sentier de randonnée. Nous avons été agréablement surpris par la nourriture abordable et de bonne qualité... il est vrai que nous ne faisions pas nos courses chez Coop 😊. On m'avait prévenu que les expériences interculturelles s'accompagnent généralement d'une vision extrêmement positive du nouveau pays et d'une critique sévère du pays d'origine, et qu'avec le temps, la situation s'inverserait. Je dirais que j'en ai fait l'expérience dans une certaine mesure. L'une des premières déceptions concernait l'expérience scolaire de nos enfants. Dans notre région, de nombreuses familles ukrainiennes sont venues s'installer dans les écoles et ont submergé le personnel enseignant. Lorsque nous sommes arrivés, le système scolaire avait conclu un contrat avec une école de langues située à une demi-heure de route. Nos enfants ont été immédiatement inscrits dans cette école au lieu de l'école locale. Quel est le problème ? C'est très bien, n'est-ce pas ? S'ils avaient testé nos enfants, ils auraient constaté que le fait que ma femme leur parle en suisse allemand depuis leur naissance leur a permis de bien comprendre la langue. Malheureusement, aucun test n'a été effectué et les enfants se sont retrouvés dans des classes d'allemand débutant avec des enfants qui n'avaient jamais entendu la langue. Nous essayions d'être de bons nouveaux arrivants et de ne pas causer de problèmes, et nous étions sûrs qu'au bout de quelques jours ou semaines, les professeurs verraient que les enfants n'avaient pas besoin de cette aide linguistique intensive. Malheureusement, ils ont continué et nos enfants se sont découragés. Nous avons finalement fait appel au directeur de l'école et avons obtenu un rendez-vous. Après une conversation intense expliquant la situation, il a donné la permission de laisser les enfants dans des classes normales pendant deux semaines et de laisser leurs professeurs normaux prendre la décision. Les enfants ne sont jamais retournés à l'école de langues, mais nous avons gagné la réputation d'Américains "je sais tout"... et nous fonctionnons toujours sous ce stigmate. Schade ! Mis à part les petits problèmes quotidiens des enfants, nous sommes en fait très satisfaits du système scolaire ici. J'apprécie particulièrement les programmes d'apprentissage et les possibilités d'explorer divers emplois lorsque les enfants seront plus âgés.____Nous avons été préparés à vivre de manière frugale au cours des premiers mois, le temps que je trouve un emploi et que nous établissions de nouveaux budgets et de nouvelles routines. Si les besoins quotidiens sont comparables à ceux des États-Unis, les services, eux, sont très chers. L'entretien des voitures, la plomberie et l'électricité coûtent beaucoup plus cher que ce à quoi j'étais habitué. Le carburant est de meilleure qualité mais aussi beaucoup plus cher... même avec l'inflation américaine. Vous payez pour TOUT ! Le parking, les toilettes, les activités scolaires obligatoires pour les enfants, les frais d'inscription, les frais de dossier, etc. Et il y a une règle pour TOUT ! Récemment, j'ai entendu dire que la Suisse avait été déclarée pays le plus libre. J'ai bien ri ! Aux États-Unis, surtout si vous vivez à la campagne, vous jouissez d'une véritable liberté. J'ai construit ma maison moi-même, avec une inspection obligatoire de la fosse septique. Tout le reste était à ma charge. J'ai créé mon entreprise avec mon frère en remplissant un seul formulaire auprès de l'État... gratuitement ! J'ai chassé sur mes propres terres avec ma fille qui a abattu légalement son premier cerf à l'âge de 11 ans. Nous avons scolarisé nos enfants à domicile parce que nous pensions que ma femme pouvait leur donner une éducation meilleure et plus complète que celle qu'ils recevraient à l'école publique. Nous avons conduit nos véhicules aussi longtemps que nous le souhaitions sans avoir besoin d'inspections. Aujourd'hui, la véritable liberté des États-Unis a son côté sombre, comme le monde entier est en train de le constater. Sans la contrainte morale interne des principes judéo-chrétiens attendus par les fondateurs des États-Unis, cette véritable liberté s'est progressivement dirigée vers le chaos à mesure que le relativisme moral et le postmodernisme ont pris le contrôle de l'enseignement supérieur et des institutions gouvernementales. Les règles strictes qui régissent la société suisse maintiennent tout le monde dans le droit chemin, à commencer par le groupe de jeu. J'apprécie cette société bien ordonnée, mais la vraie liberté dont je jouissais aux Etats-Unis me manque. ____C'est assez pour l'instant. En conclusion, j'ai quitté une grande maison avec ses avantages et ses inconvénients et j'ai trouvé une nouvelle maison avec les mêmes 🙂 La question est de savoir si je vais me concentrer sur ce qui est important pour moi. La question est de savoir si je vais me concentrer sur les aspects positifs ou négatifs. J'ai choisi de me concentrer sur les aspects positifs, sans pour autant nier les aspects négatifs. J'aimerais recevoir des commentaires constructifs sur ce que j'ai partagé, mais j'apprécierais que les "buntzlis" les gardent "constructifs"!😁
I immigrated to CH at the end of 2022 with my wife, who grew up here, and 4 children. We had purchased an old family home in a small village... made possible in part by the generosity of my father-in-law and most of our life's savings. The initial idea was to keep the house in the family and rent it out as a holiday home to pay for the expenses, as well as to have a place to stay when we would come on vacation. My wife lived happily in the US Midwest for 16 years where we built a house and began our family. For many reasons we decided it was a good time to sell out in the US and move to CH. One of the main reasons was to be near to her dad as he was getting older and having memory issues. Supporting reasons were to expose the kids to my wife's culture, invest in my wife's homeland through community, church and cultural involvement and just enjoy rural, Swiss life! We spent 11 weeks living in CH as an extended covid make-up vacation and during that time became convinced that we should move to CH. As with most life changes there was the honeymoon period.... Everything was better in CH! We could allow our children much more freedom in being out and about, the quality of food, water, transportation system... Almost everything seemed superior to what we were used to. People were friendly and interested in our story. People were helpful and encouraging in the language struggle. We enjoyed the stunning views around every curve while driving and on every hiking trail. We were pleasantly surprised by the affordable and good quality food...granted, we weren't shopping at Coop 😊. I was warned that cross-cultural experiences usually experience this extremely positive view of the new country along with a harsh critic of the home country and that over time it would do a reversal. I would say that I have experienced this to some extent. One of the early disappointments had to do with our childrens school experience. Our region had experienced many Ukrainian families coming into the schools and overwhelming the teaching staff. By the time we arrived, the school system had worked out a contract with a language school half an hour away. Our kids were immediately enrolled in this school instead of the local school. So what's the big deal? This is great, right? Had they tested our children, they would have found that my wife's speaking to them in swiss German from birth had resulted in them understanding the language well. Unfortunately there was no test done and the kids were stuck in beginning German classes with kids who had never heard the language. We were trying to be good newcomers and not cause problems and we were sure that in a few days or weeks the teachers would surely see that the kids didn't need this intensive language help. Unfortunately they just continued on and our kids were becoming very discouraged. We finally appealed to the School superintendent and got a meeting. After an intense conversation explaining the situation he gave permission to let the kids be in normal classes for two weeks and let there normal teachers make the call. The kids never returned to the language school but we earned the reputation of the "know-it-all" Americans...and we are still operating under this stigma. Schade! Other than the normal little everyday kid issues, we're actually very happy with the school system here. I especially appreciate the apprenticeship programs and "snooper" opportunities to explore diverse jobs as the kids get older.____We were prepared to live frugally in the first months as I found employment and we worked out new budgets and routines. While everyday needs are on par with the US, services I have found to be very expensive. Car maintenance, plumbing and electric costs are much higher than what I was used to. Fuel is higher quality but also much more expensive...even with US inflation. You pay for EVERYTHING! Parking, WC, kids School activities that are obligatory, entry fees, filing fees, etc. And there's a rule for EVERYTHING! Recently I heard that CH was declared the country with the most freedom. I laughed! In the US, especially if you live rural, you have true freedom. I built my house myself with one obligatory inspection of the septic system. Everything else was on me. I started my business with my brother with filing one form with the state...free! I hunted on my own land with my daughter who legally shot her first deer at 11 years old. We homeschooled our children because we felt my wife could give them a better, more well rounded education than they would get in public school. We drove our vehicles as long as we wanted without needing inspections. Now, the true freedom in the US has it's dark side as the whole world is seeing. Without the inner moral restraint of Judeo-Christian principles that was expected by the US founders, this true freedom has been steadily heading towards chaos as moral relativism and postmodernism have taken over higher education and government institutions. The strict rules that govern Swiss society keep everyone in line, starting in play group. I appreciate the well ordered society, but I miss the true freedom I enjoyed in the US. ____That's enough for now. In conclusion, I left a great home with it's advantages and disadvantages and have found a new home with the same 🙂. The question is, will I focus on the positives or the negatives? I'm choosing the positive as my focus while not denying that the negatives are there. I would love constructive feedback on what I've shared but would appreciate the "buntzlis" keeping it 'constructive'!😁
以下评论已自动从DE翻译成中文。
@JoStoUSA
关于您孩子的学校教育......顺便说一句：__瑞士方言是一种方言，而不是一种语言。__瑞士宪法将几种语言列为官方语言：__德语、法语、意大利语和罗曼语。____ 没有提到 "瑞士德语 "一词。____ 我不明白为什么有人要把 Schwizer Dütsch "强加 "给您的孩子。__这就好比巴伐利亚语作为学校语言成为德语教育系统的一部分。__这不是目的。__如果您想学，那很好......但要强迫吗？__现在，我不得不承认，我真的什么都不懂。__亲切的问候。
Kleiner Hinweis zum Schulunterricht Ihrer Kinder..nur so am Rande :__Schwizer Dütsch ist ein Dialekt, keine Sprache.__In der schweizer Verfassung stehen mehrere Sprachen als Amtssprache:__Deutsch, Französisch, Italienisch und Räto-Romanisch.____Das "Schweizer Deutsch" wird nicht erwähnt.____Warum man Ihren Kindern schwizer Dütsch "aufzwingen" möchte, erschließt sich mir nicht.__Es wäre, als ob Bayerisch als Schulsprache Eingang ins Bildungssystem Deutschlands fände.__Nicht zielführend.__Wenn man das gerne lernen möchte ist das ja völlig in Ordnung..aber zwangsweise???__Nun aber..ich gebe ganz offen zu..ich verstehe viel nicht.__Kind regards.
以下评论已自动从EN翻译成中文。
@JoStoUSA
感谢您的分享！你所说的一切都非常有道理。 如果有机会搬到瑞士，我愿意付出一切。您真是太幸运了。我是一个有着瑞士血统的美国人，但由于工作许可的严格规定、生活成本和后勤问题，我似乎不可能有机会搬家。我完全同意你对美国的看法。几年前我去过瑞士，在那里比在美国更有家的感觉。 我只是从未被一个地方如此强烈地吸引过。
Thank you for sharing this! Everything you said makes so much sense. I would give anything to have the chance to move to Switzerland. You're so very fortunate. I’m an American with Swiss roots, and it looks impossible for me to ever have the chance to move, with the strict rules for work permits and the cost of living and the logistics of it all. __I agree completely with what you said about the U.S. Freedom only works when there is also virtue. I visited Switzerland a few years ago, and felt more at home there than the U.S. I’m sure there is a honeymoon period though, like you said. I’ve just never been more strongly drawn to a place.
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