What do you think about solar farms in the Swiss Alps?
Building large solar parks in high-mountain regions is arguably an effective way to produce more essential electricity in winter and accelerate the energy transition. Several initiatives are underway in the Swiss Alps and parliament has made it easier to speed up the construction of future high-mountain solar projects.
But the idea is highly controversial and environmental groups are unhappy with plans. Critics say there is plenty of potential to put solar panels on existing buildings and infrastructure, not in the mountains.
What do you think? What solutions do you see to produce more renewables like solar power and help secure the future energy supply?
From the article Mountaintop solar farms spark tensions in Switzerland
You can also build panels on the Alps, but please discreetly and only in remote areas so as not to violate their appearance! We have already seen aesthetically only destructive “asylum” projects: we cannot afford to ruin the only area that has remained almost virgin of our precious Alpine territory, which is renowned worldwide. Rather, then I still prefer two or three next-generation nuclear power plants (!) Assuming that it will be possible to overcome the obstacle of a new popular vote on the matter. It would certainly be the least of evils.
Si possono anche costruire pannelli sulle Alpi, ma per favore in modo discreto e solo in zone discoste per non violentarne l'aspetto! Si sono già visti progetti "manicomiali" esteticamente solo distruttivi: non possiamo permetterci di rovinare l'unica area rimasta quasi vergine del nostro prezioso territorio alpino che è di rinomanza mondiale. Piuttosto, allora preferisco ancora due o tre centrali atomiche di nuova generazione (!) ammesso che si potrà superare lo scoglio di una nuova votazione popolare in merito. Sarebbe di certo il minore dei mali.
According to my experience gained during my working life as a landscape architect, there is no doubt about it. An environment as unique as Switzerland should not allow its precious mountainous soil that characterizes it worldwide to be disqualified by photovoltaic panels.
The solution could come from placing these photovoltaic systems on the roofs of production-agricultural-residential structures, favoring east-southwest exposures. One could easily verify the potential for electricity production from such installations, which, in view of the nature of the stone d/o wood roofs of traditional buildings can be easily integrated into the Swiss landscape.
Secondo le mia esperienza maturata durante la vita lavorativa come architetto paesaggista non ci sono dubbi. Un ambiente unico come quello svizzero non deve permettere di lasciare squalificare il suo prezioso suolo montano che la caratterizza in tutto il mondo con dei pannelli fotovoltaici.
La soluzione potrebbe venire dall’inserimento di questi impianti fotovoltaici sulle coperture delle strutture produttive-agricole-residenziali, privilegiando le esposizioni est-sud-ovest. Si potrebbe facilmente verificare la potenzialità della produzione elettrica di tali impianti, che, in considerazione della natura delle coperture in pietra d/o legno delle costruzioni tradizionali possono essere facilmente integrate nel paesaggio svizzero.
environmental groups are against everything.
they shut down nuclear power plants without a logical replacement.
do these gentlemen light candles at home ?
i gruppi ambientalisti sono contrari a tutto.
hanno fatto chiudere le centrali nucleari senza una logica sostituzione.
questi signori accendono le candele a casa loro ?
Every house has a roof, if you were to mandate passive solar design principles into planning law, and get your world class architectural institutions to rethink apartment construction, then one day In the distant future the built environment might actually serve humanity in Switzerland rather than being the millstone around the neck of the floundering bather, when you finally get your head around that, it will at least be a start....
I think and know (as a professional engineer) that it is sad Switzerland is being persuaded by activists who have no technical knowledge, to join the cry for more so-called renewable energy. I recommend the following:-
1/solar parks are not necessary
2/ they only supply power during the day
3/ the power output is very variable with a for about two hours of the day and nothing before sun rise and nothing after sun set.
4/ power out varies through the year with winter being about half of summer
5/ power output can vary by minute to minute when clouds and can reduce almost to zero through rain periods and storms. The power output can be close to zero for upto 2 weeks.
6/ Solar farms are ugly and can spoil great Swiss vistas
7/ solar farms can be dangerous for birdlife
8/ solar farms take up a lot of space compared to say a nuclear power plant of the same annual electricity production.
9/ I note Sweden has stopped subsidies for renewables, extended the life of its existing nuclear power plants and intends to install new small reactors.
There seem to be NIMBYs here not in my back yard .... South West Switzerland has a lot of Hydro Electric Power and yes solar panels on roofs are a good idea ...BUT remember there are windless days and drought years diversification of supply and testing the viability of high altitude solar farms is a great idea.. All means of moving away from fossil fuels must be used ... and we must nor rely on just one technology
Rooftops, dams, and other existing things already built, need to be used first to delay as much as possible the destruction of natural and rural scenery that attracts money to Switzerland. The same principles apply here in the "American Alps" of north central Washington State, tucked into the sunny eastern side of the North Cascades adjacent the national park of that name. The Methow Valley is similar to Val Mustair in that regard, and our meadows are sacred sources of the wet side income that sustains our economy. Like Zernez however, we also are working to diversify our income supply chains. Check out the Bluebird Grain Farms adds on the High Country News website for an example.
-Eric Burr & Margrit Broennimann, Mazama WA USA
Please use building rooftops as there are many. Do not cover alpine meadows with infrastructure as it destroys habitat.
It is completely useless to debate how we want to achieve our goals of energy self-sufficiency and improvement of our environment. Everything that is possible and sustainable must be implemented immediately. We are in the fortunate position of having a high level of expertise and ingenuity in the development of such technologies and thus the possibility of being able to market them in a way that is profitable for all. In the foreground, of course, is photovoltaics on any suitable (roof) surface. To discuss whether a rubble heap should be equipped with it is a joke, until in 50 years there will be only rubble heaps! Also for the necessary storage of the energies more and more possibilities open up. If one day our energy cycle will be cleaner and cleaner, we may also hope that this will have a positive effect on the climate. However, the climate is constantly changing. We have to learn to deal with it better again.
Es ist vollkommen müssig, darüber zu debattieren wie wir unsere Ziele Energieautarkie und Verbesserung unserer Umwelt erreichen wollen. Alles, was nur irgendwie möglich und zukunftsfähig ist muss sofort umgesetzt werden. Wir sind in der glücklichen Lage, über ein hohes Fachwissen und viel Erfindungsgeist zu verfügen in der Entwicklung solcher Technologien und damit der Möglichkeit, diese auch, für alle gewinnbringend, vermarkten zu können. Im Vordergrund steht natürlich die Fotovoltaik auf jeder dazu geeigneten (Dach)fläche. Darüber zu diskutieren, ob eine Gröllhalde damit bestückt werden soll ist ein Witz, bis in 50 Jahren wird es nur noch Geröllhalden geben! Auch für die notwenige Speicherung der Energien tun sich immer mehr Möglichkeiten auf. Wenn dereinst unser Energiekreislauf immer sauberer sein wird darf auch gehofft werden, dass sich dies ein Bisschen positiv auf das Klima auswirkt. Allerdings, das Klima ändert sich laufend. Wir müssen lernen, wieder besser damit umgehen zu können.
I am not an expert in the field but for photovoltaics I would see it better to put solar panels on buildings so as to encourage self-consumption and not depend on a power/energy grid as much as possible.
If we want to increase the energy of the grids we need to focus on boosting hydro or nuclear, but carpeting the Alps with solar panels does not seem sustainable to me as well as wind produces very little in relation to what is placed.
Non sono un esperto del settore ma per il fotovoltaico vedrei meglio l'applicare i pannelli solari sugli edifici in modo da favorire l'autoconsumo e non dipendere da una rete elettrica/energetica per quanto possibile.
Se vogliamo aumentare l'energia delle reti occorre puntare su potenziare l'idroelettrico o il nucleare, ma tappezzare le Alpi di pannelli solari non mi sembra sostenibile così come invece l'eolico produce molto poco in rapporto a cosa viene posizionato.
Who will remove the ice and now from these in the winter?
We've seen this movie before, the greedy money hungry people are licking their chops when they see the profit potential. Quite often, these earlier adopters want to maximize their profits before regulatory agencies get to control the growth. Look at history, over and over it's the same story. So, solar production yes, environmental protection yes, it's a delicate balance, but it needs flushing out before we overbuild in the wrong areas, where we could have just expanded by careful consideration.
Building photovoltaic power plants in the high mountains is to me only a balky idea, because it solves none of the big energy problems! It remains as inconstant energy as ever: it will yield very little in the cold, dark months when it is most needed, and then it also irreparably defaces the precious alpine environment and ecosystem. Can you imagine our beautiful Alps filled with wind turbines? The last natural bulwark ruined forever? I don't even want to think about it!
Atomic FIFA made ninety, albeit completely irrational (!) as well unleashed by the usual environmentalists divorced from reality. Now let us pick up the pieces of the infamous "Energiewende" first wanted by Merkel in Germany (with nefarious outcomes), but immediately uncritically imitated by our Doris, forgetting that fear was NEVER good counselor, on the contrary! By now the damage is done and we can only expect the worst
Costruire centrali fotovoltaiche in alta montagna è per me un'idea solo balzana, perché non risolve nessuno dei grossi problemi energetici! Rimane energia incostante come sempre: renderà pochissimo nei mesi freddi e bui, quando più necessita, e poi deturpa anche in modo irreparabile il prezioso ambiente ed ecosistema alpino. Ve le immaginate le nostre belle Alpi piene di pale eoliche? L'ultimo baluardo naturale rovinato per sempre? Non voglio nemmeno pensarci!
La FIFA atomica ha fatto novanta, sebbene del tutto irrazionale (!) pure scatenata dai soliti ambientalisti avulsi dalla realtà. Ora raccogliamo i cocci della famigerata "Energiewende" voluta per prima dalla Merkel in Germania (con esiti nefasti), ma subito acriticamente imitata dalla nostra Doris, dimenticando che la paura non fu MAI buona consigliera, anzi! Ormai il danno è fatto e possiamo solo aspettarci il peggio
They are nonsense. Those proposing them will realize this when they do the math on how much it costs to feed those kilowatt-hours into the grid between logistical problems, snow cover, electrical infrastructure.
Sono un controsenso. Chi li propone se ne accorgerà quando farà il conto di quanto costa immettere in rete quei chilowattora tra problemi logistici, copertura da neve, infrastruttura elettrica.
In the high mountains, I propose that solar panels be installed in the shape of large pine trees, green if possible and not lying on rocks. What do you think?
In alta montagna, propongo che i pannelli solari siano installati a forma di grandi pini, di colore verde se possibile e non adagiati alle rocce. Che ne pensate?
Solar power plants are still harmful due to the presence of toxic batteries
Солнечные электростанции это пока вредно из_за наличия аккумуляторов токсичных
A major advantage of solar power is not just its renewable nature that we all think of immediately, but also the fact that it enables decentralized energy production and this creates a much more resilient, redundant electricity supply. See what happens in Ukraine today: entire regions and cities are stuck without electricity as centralized production has fallen out.
Installing solar power on roofs and batteries in basements makes residences and commercial property less dependent, more resilient, and easier to upgrade in the future.
The centralized production of solar power could deliver some economies of scale, but even though a small part of Switzerland is used for buildings, there are enough roofs to start with, and to lay out the foundation for a stable, upgradable, reliable energy supply in the future.
Every single person must be taught the practice of electromagnetism and devices that one alone could build, such as a dynamo. Teach how to build tools and devices that capture the sun's energy as well as Archimedes mirrors. Getting to know how to produce at least half of the energy we consume on our own. Spend less time consuming packaged productsyi packaged, but more time producing energy on our own.
Bisogna insegnare ad ogni singola persona la pratica dell'elettromagnetismo e dei dispositivi che uno da solo potrebbe costruire, come una dinamo. Insegnare a costruire strumenti e dispositivi che catturano l'energia del sole come anche specchi di Archimede. Arrivare a saper produrre almeno la metà dell'energia che consumiamo da soli. Dedicare meno tempo al consumo di prodotyi confezionati imballati, ma più tempo alla produzione di energia in proprio.
I don't believe in solar energy, because it CANNOT be the solution, being by definition inconstant, i.e., dancing: in fact, it is not there when it is most needed, i.e., in the dark and cold winter months! It is a pious illusion, however, that has caused people to vote against atomic power plants, and now we are at the foot of the ladder, and Germany's failed energy policy docet! Fossil fuels will be resorted to as substitutes : coal, gas and oil with peace of mind for climate disasters and ever-rising prices also for the well-known reasons of war.
In short: we are just not there, and it will be all our fault!
Io non credo all'energia solare, perché NON può essere la soluzione, essendo per definizione incostante, cioè ballerina: infatti non c'è quando più serve, cioè nei mesi invernali bui e freddi! È una pia illusione che però ha fatto sì di convincere la gente a votare contro le centrali atomiche e ora siamo ai piedi della scala, e la politica energetica fallimentare della Germania docet! Si ricorrerà come sostituto al fossile : carbone, gas e petrolio con buona pace per i disastri climatici e dei prezzi in continua ascesa anche per i noti motivi bellici.
Insomma: non ci siamo proprio, e sarà tutta colpa nostra!
Ukraine is a poor example.
This is manifestly nonsense.
È manifestamente un controsenso.
Exactly!
esatto!
The plan would be ruinous to nature and tourism.
There are other methods which are not disruptive or destructive.
I am in and for solar advocate and agree that solar in the Alps can have some advantages! What me but so far no one could answer or wanted. At 100% irradiation of these panels are (as I have often read) 80% or more absorbed as heat. If this should be true, then I ask myself, do we promote thus also still straight the glacier melt and generally the climatic warming? Are there any reliable studies on this? I am waiting for a competent answer.
Ich bin an und für sich Solarbefürworter und einverstanden das Solar in den Alpen einige Vorteile haben kann! Was mir aber bisher noch niemand beantworten konnte oder wollte. Bei 100% bestrahlung dieser Panel werde( wie ich schon öfters gelesen) 80% oder mehr als Wäme absorbiert. Sollte dies stimmen, dann frage ich mich, fördern wir somit auch noch gerade die Gletscherschmelze und allgemein die Klimaerwärmung? Gibt es dazu verlässliche Studien? Ich warte auf eine kompeten erliche Antwort.
No, we are only promoting by leaps and bounds the ruin of our hitherto intact alpine landscape: the last precious naturalistic bulwark of Europe is now destined for ruin and we also know whom we have to thank: the anti-nuclear Taliban (!) who also forget the enormous benefits obtained from our nuclear power plants that have avoided millions of tons of greenhouse gases ( Co2). By now we have already missed the train and hope at least to be able to import nuclear-generated energy from the rest of Europe (France, Eastern Europe, Holland, England, etc.)
No, stiamo solo promuovendo a passi da giganti la rovina del nostro finora intatto paesaggio alpino: l'ultimo prezioso baluardo naturalistico d'Europa è ormai destinato alla rovina e sappiamo anche chi dover ringraziare: i talebani antinucleari (!) che dimenticano pure i benefici enormi ottenuti dalle nostre centrali nucleari che hanno evitato milioni di tonnellate di gas serra ( Co2). Ormai abbiamo già perso il treno e speriamo almeno di poter importare energia prodotta col nucleare dal resto d'Europa (Francia, Est Europa, Olanda, Inghilterra, ecc)
Join the conversation!