“If you want peace, prepare for war” – is that true?
The war in Ukraine has forced Europe to rethink its security policies. Support for Ukraine is the prevailing doctrine but also controversial. At the same time, discussions are being held in Switzerland on potentially softening the country’s stance on neutrality in support of Ukraine.
Can armament and military support for Ukraine contribute to an end to the war? Or is there a danger that this strategy will lead to further escalation by Russia? Does diplomacy have any chance at all at the moment?
What is your opinion?
From the article How the war in Ukraine has changed Switzerland
Diplomacy is the only option!! We vote to elect people who will do this, certainly not the war. Never before have I realized how limited the horizon of the Western democracies in which we live is. The lives and deaths of millions of people hang by a thread and we have no chance of affecting that.
I hear that the parties involved are certainly talking to each other and “who knows what they are arguing about”, as a very dear journalist friend told me. And so? Everything normal, has it always been like this and is this how it should work? As a citizen, I have the right to know what my Swiss and European representatives are proposing (I vote for both).
Are we talking about a neutral Ukraine and/or an agreement that guarantees the security of both sides Ukraine (Europe) and Russia”? ... to guarantee Ukraine access to the Black Sea without threatening the presence of the Russian naval fleet (it has been there since 1700)?
... of referendums in the occupied Russian-speaking territories?... I believe that before we find ourselves living in a bunker, if it goes well (assuming it's not better to crack), we have a right to know!!
La diplomazia è l'unica possibilità!! Votiamo per eleggere persone che facciano questo, non certo la guerra. Mai come in questo momento mi rendo conto di quanto sia limitato l'orizzonte delle democrazie occidentali in cui viviamo. La vita e la morte di milioni di persone sono appese a un filo e non abbiamo alcuna possibilità di incidere su questo.
Sento dire che le parti in causa sicuramente si stanno parlando e "chissà di cosa stanno discutendo", come mi ha detto un carissimo amico giornalista. E quindi? Tutto normale, è sempre stato così ed è così che deve funzionare? In quanto cittadino ho diritto di sapere cosa propongono i miei rappresentanti svizzeri ed europei (voto per entrambi).
Si sta parlando di un Ucraina neutrale e/o un accordo che garantisca la sicurezza di entrambe le parti Ucraina (Europa) e Russia"? ...di garantire all'Ucraina l'accesso al Mar Nero senza per questo minacciare la presenza della flotta navale russa (è lì dal 1700)?
...di referendum nei dei territori russofoni occupati?...Credo che prima di ritrovarci a vivere in un bunker, se va bene (ammesso che non sia meglio crepare), abbiamo diritto di saperlo!!
Has anyone here ever read Zbignew Brzezinsky and George Friedman? These hawks of American foreign policy have been hammering home for ages that American hegemony must be achieved through the separation of Russia and Germany, the driving force behind Europe, and that all means must be taken to achieve this, including war. Washington was behind the 2014 coup and their aim was to bring Ukraine into NATO and place missiles 6 min from Moscow. How do you expect Putin to accept this aggression? The United States did the same during the Cuban missile crisis and everyone approved.
Quelqu’un ici a-t-il déjà lu Zbignew Brzezinsky et George Friedman ? Ces faucons de la politique extérieure étasunienne martèlent depuis des lustres que l’hégémonie américaine doit passer par la séparation de la Russie et de l’Allemagne, moteur de l’Europe, et que tous les moyens doivent être entrepris pour y parvenir y compris la guerre. Washington est à l’origine du coup d’Etat de 2014 et leur but était de faire entrer l’Ukraine dans l’OTAN et de placer des missiles à 6 min de Moscou. Comment voulez-vous que Poutine accepte cette agression ? Les États-Unis ont fait de même lors de la crise des missiles à Cuba et tout le monde a approuvé.
If we want peace, we should all lay down our weapons and fight with our bare hands.
平和を求めるなら、全員が武器を捨て、素手で喧嘩をするべきだ。
In the long run I think that eventually even the resistance to the various American provocations, even Russia's resistance will erupt and I think so far war has not been seen .
A lungo andare credo che alla fine anche la resistenza alle varie provocazioni Americane, anche quella della Russia scoppierà e penso che fin'ora di guerra non s'è visto nulla .
Who came up with this nonsense??? More excuses to keep up the production of weapons? Support the military industrial complex? If you REALLY want peace then work at it instead of keeping up the war mongering propaganda.
I read with interest the comments suggesting that we stop helping Ukrainians in their resistance to Russian murderers. Ukrainians will fight for their land and their home against Russian bandits regardless of military assistance from other nations. A position of non-interference and neutrality now means helping Russians kill Ukrainians.
С интересом прочитал комментарии, предлагающих прекратить помогать украинцам в их сопротивлении российским убийцам. Украинцы будут сражаться за свою землю и за свой дом с российскими бандитами независимо от военной помощи иных наций. Позиция невмешательства и нейтралитета сейчас означает помощь россиянам убивать украинцев.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom. Mutual comprehension, respect, and cooperation among nations are the elements critically lacking.
Here is a piece from Jeffrey Sachs for your additional thoughts
https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/the-war-in-ukraine-was-provoked-and-why-that-matters-if-we-want-peace
“If you want peace, prepare for war” - is that true? No. If you want peace, be strong to defend yourself, and be respectful and kind. The same is true for a community or a nation.
Can armament and military support for Ukraine contribute to an end to the war? It depends on what Zhelensky and the nation is willing to settle. Unfortunately, he is not his own man. He said as much in his speech to the American Congress "I am fighting for you and democracy"
Or is there a danger that this strategy will lead to further escalation by Russia? Yes, the danger is real. Watch this lecture given by Prof J. Mearsheimer in Hungary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-2Oy3MVyyA
You will hear evidences in America's history how this Ukraine war fits into his Theory of Realism, one of the theories in International Relations.
Does diplomacy have any chance at all at the moment? Time will tell, if nations are rational actors to avoid Mutually Assured Destruction.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. However, this point of view overlooks the fact that Russia launched the war on Ukraine and violated international laws and norms. She cites Zelensky's statement before the U.S. Congress that he is defending the values of democracy in the Western world. I don't see anything wrong with it. The Ukrainian people have the right to determine their own destiny, political priorities, values and choose their allies. The era of colonial regencies ended with the birth of liberation movements around the world, but in my opinion Vladimir Putin still lives in the era of the Russian Empire. Another famous quote by Zelensky is “I don't need a ride, I need ammo.” This is what the Ukrainian president has been doing for more than a year: defending his country's freedom against the Russian attack.
شكرا لك على مشاركة رأيك. لكن وجهة النظر هذه تغفل حقيقة أن روسيا هي من شنت الحرب على أوكرانيا وخرقت القوانين والأعراف الدولية. تستشهد بمقولة زيلينسكي أمام الكونغرس الأمريكي بأنه يدافع عن قيم الديمقراطية في العالم الغربي. لا أرى أي خطأ في ذلك. من حق الشعب الأوكراني تحديد مصيره وأولوياته السياسية وقيمه واختيار حلفائه. عهد الوصايات الاستعمارية انتهى مع ولادة حركات التحرير في جميع أنحاء العالم، لكن برأيي ما يزال فلاديمير بوتين يعيش في عصر الإمبراطورية الروسية. من المقولات الشهيرة أيضا لزيلنسكي " “I don't need a ride, I need ammo” . وهذا ما يفعله الرئيس الأوكراني منذ أكثر من عام: الدفاع عن حرية بلاده ضد الهجوم الروسي.
The Ukrainian people include a significant proportion of Russian speakers, who have repeatedly and democratically demonstrated that they wish to remain under the rule of Moscow, not the neo-conservatives of the US and its European vassals. To deny this is hypocrisy and misleading propaganda.
Le peuple ukrainien est composé d’une part non négligeable de russophones qui a prouvé à de nombreuses reprises et de manière démocratique qu’elle souhaitait demeurer sous le régime de Moscou et non des néoconservateurs US et de ses vassaux européens. Nier ce fait relève de l’ hypocrisie et de la propagande mensongère.
You are writing outright lies, more specifically Russian propaganda.
Вы пишете откровенную ложь, а точнее, российскую пропаганду.
It is pure nonsense that to get peace we have a war!!
Who on earth thought that ridiculous idea up!
There are USA military bases in my homeland that I NEVER voted for or would even allow them to be there. So democracy to me isn't working!!
If I had a noisy neighbour and just burnt his house down without negotiating, I'd end up in jail and yet in the Russian - Ukraine conflict we don't see any negotiating going on, really.. do we? Sanctions are imposed against Citizens without Citizens actually voting for the sanctions. Weapons are sent - again with out citizens voting for that to happen.
Everything is decided by so called intellectual and educated Politicians who remain out of jail and allowing Human beings to be murdered rather than negotiate - yet, I would be put in jail!!!!
And if I really wanted to speak my mind.. what rational, caring parent is allowing their sons and daughters to join the military!!! Madness... in my present state of mind and if I had children, I do not, I would be doing everything to stop them joining anything that might lead them to go to war and be killed... legalised murder...
With the so called Russian threat of atomic bombs.. the USA is the only one that dropped bombs, on Japan!! Because ??
I'm sorry, but this whole thing triggers me and it is complicated and getting peace by war doesn't seem to work... Weapons of mass destruction has turned into a big lie and people died...
So, if you want peace, then learn to negotiate and respect and this should be the Role Modelling from Leaders rather. than the pathetic lack of leadership in many countries we see happening..
Military assistance to Ukraine will not end the war. On the contrary, it will aggravate and fuel it because this has been the goal of the United States from the beginning when it provoked Russia by announcing the possibility of accepting Ukraine as a member of NATO. But the goal of helping Ukraine is not to end the war but to exhaust Russia militarily and economically. If Europe is unaware of this, it must consider it. If it is aware of this goal, it is with America. The situation says that Russia will not retreat from achieving its goals no matter what happens. I expect a clear victory for Russia in this war.
المساعدة العسكرية لأوكرانيا لن تُنهي الحرب بل على العكس سوف تفاقمها وتؤججها لأن هذا هو هدف الولايات المتحدة منذ البداية عندما استفزت روسيا بإعلان إمكانية قبول أوكرانيا عضوا في الناتو. لكن الهدف من مساعدة أوكرانيا ليس إنهاء الحرب بل انهاك روسيا عسكريا واقتصاديا. وإذا كانت أوروبا لا تعي ذلك فلا بد أن تفكر فيه، واذا كانت تعي هذا الهدف فانها متواجدة مع أمريكا. والوضع يقول إن روسيا لن تتراجع عن تحقيق أهدافها مهما حصل وأتوقع نصرا مبينا لروسيا في هذه الحرب.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. However, this point of view overlooks the fact that Russia launched the war on Ukraine and violated international laws and norms. International law guarantees the Ukrainian people to determine their destiny, political priorities and values, choose their allies and enter into military alliances to defend their territorial integrity, especially after the invasion and annexation of Crimea in 2014.
شكرا لك على مشاركة رأيك. لكن وجهة النظر هذه تغفل حقيقة أن روسيا هي من شنت الحرب على أوكرانيا وخرقت القوانين والأعراف الدولية. القانون الدولي يكفل للشعب الأوكراني تحديد مصيره وأولوياته السياسية وقيمه واختيار حلفائه والدخول في تحالفات عسكرية للدفاع عن وحدة أراضيه ولا سيما بعد غزو وضم شبه جزيرة القرم في عام 2014.
How many times has the United States violated international law and bombed thousands of civilians, even though there was no threat to their territorial integrity, without any sanction from the international community? Name me one country where US intervention has brought peace and improved living conditions!
I have the feeling that the participants in this discussion are very poorly informed, if not amnesiac.
Combien de fois les Etats-Unis ont-ils violé le droit international et bombardé des milliers de civils pourtant sans menace pour leur intégrité territoriale sans aucune sanction de la part de la communauté internationale ? Citez-moi un pays où l’intervention US a apporté la paix et une amélioration des conditions de vie !
J’ai le sentiment que les participants à cette discussion sont très peu informés voire amnésiques.
If the currents of majority opinion published here on the invasion of Ukraine had guided the decisions of Europe and the USA in the face of the Third Reich, we would now have Hitler's portrait in all schools, and several million European and non-European civilians would have tragically succumbed to Nazi and Soviet barbarism.
And this in the best scenario of history fiction: a cold war between the Nazi and Soviet blocs. Can we imagine another more probable and apocalyptic scenario? Yes, let's imagine a triumphant Nazi Germany and a surviving Soviet Union, both with nuclear weapons...
This harrowing exercise of imagination dispels many pacifist vapors and hatreds to Americans, which are the main motivations of the opinions opposed to the defense of invaded Ukraine.
Evil exists, and so does good.
Si las corrientes de opinión mayoritarias publicadas aquí sobre la invasión de Ucrania hubieran dirigido las decisiones de Europa y USA frente al III Reich, tendríamos ahora el retrato de Hitler en todas las escuelas, y varios millones de civiles europeos, y no europeos, habrían sucumbido trágicamente víctimas de la barbarie nazi y soviética.
Y esto en el mejor escenario de historia-ficción: una guerra fría entre los bloques nazi y soviético ¿Podemos imaginar otro escenario más probable y apocalíptico? Pues si, imaginemos una Alemania nazi triunfante y una Unión Soviética sobreviviente ambos con armas nucleares...
Este estremecedor ejercicio de imaginación disipa muchos vapores pacifistas y odios a los norteamericanos, que son las principales motivaciones de las opiniones opuestas a la defensa de Ucrania invadida.
El mal existe, y el bien también.
As an ex-marine married to a dual citizen Swiss/ American wife, I simply hope Switzerland can do what's best. The porcupine principle seems best, but it's much more complicated than that ! - Eric Burr, Mazama WA USA
Thank you for this contribution. How do you think Switzerland can best contribute to ending this war?
شكرا لك على هذه المساهمة. وكيف يمكن أن تساهم سويسرا بشكل أفضل في إنهاء هذه الحرب برأيك؟
The war only decides to whom my taxes and efforts in the performance of my citizenship go, for the soldier it decides his premature death, and for the rulers of the country it guarantees that whoever wins will have his ego inflated with lots of money and zero respect for his people. For me, it makes no difference being Brazilian, Swiss or any other nationality, as long as people can live their lives simply and within laws that preserve life.
A guerra só decide para quem vai meus impostos e esforços no desempenho de minha cidadania, para o soldado decide sua morte prematura e para os mandantes do País, garante que quem vencer vai ter seu ego inflado muito dinheiro e zero respeito por seu povo. Para mim, não faz diferença ser brasileiro, suíço ou outra nacionalidade, desde que povos possam viver suas vidas de maneira simples e dentro de leis que preservem a vida.
War will always be the best business for all those who financially support countries that are supposedly poor or unprepared for such scenarios, therefore, as long as this is seen as a business of the one who wins the most, there can never be peace, much less think that diplomacy in times of war exists. It is simply not possible to speak of peace as long as there is no talk of a radical change.
La guerra siempre será el mejor negocio para todos aquellos que financieramente apoyan a países supuesto escasos o poco preparados para dichos escenarios, por tanto mientras esto se vea como un negocio del que más gane nunca podrá haber paz y mucho menos pensar que la diplomacia en momentos de guerra existe. Simple no se puede hablar de paz mientras no se hable de un cambio radical.
Thank you for this contribution. What do you mean by radical change: do you mean on the battlefield?
شكرا لك على هذه المساهمة. ما الذي تعنيه بالتغيير الجذري: هل تقصد في أرض المعركة؟
As long as there are countries that use primitive mechanisms of negotiation, such as war and violence, Peace can only be build with War.
I believe that military support will help end the war. They say that offense is the best defense.
軍事支援は戦争を終わらせることにつながると思います。攻撃は最大の防御と言いますから。
Thank you for this contribution.
شكرا لك على هذه المساهمة.
The Swiss government should remain neutral in the Ukrainian conflict at all times, regardless of whether it was the prelude to a global conflict, like the two sadly previous times in the 20th century. It is true that human rights violations might have more repercussions on the Russian front in principle, but that does not mean that the Ukrainian army is at fault or could be worse. It is a war that we do not know how long it will last, but we do know that if a global conflict were to occur, a very aggressive technology could be used that some military experts could judge appropriate or not, which is the use of the F-36 fighter by both sides. It should also be noted that many of today's armed groups do not base their military discipline only on civilian ideals, but also on satanic ideology, so Switzerland should be more careful and refrain from being an active entity in the current war conflict, although it could be exempted from this special type of warlike activity, on either side of a conflict.
El gobierno de Suiza debería mantenerse neutral en el conflicto de Ucrania en todo momento, independientemente que fuera la antesala de un conflicto global, como las dos veces tristemente anteriores en el siglo XX. Es verdad que violación de derechos humanos, podría tener más repercusión en principio en el frente ruso, pero no por ello queda de culpa o podría ser peor por parte del ejército de Ucrania. Es una guerra que no se sabe lo que durará, pero sí se sabe que si se produjera un conflicto global, podría utilizarse una tecnología muy agresiva que algunos expertos militares podrían juzgar adecuada o no, que es la utilización del caza F-36 por los dos bandos. También hay que destacar, que muchos de los grupos armados actuales, no basan su disciplina militar sólo en ideales civiles, sino también en ideología satánica, con lo cual debe de llevar más cuidado Suiza y abstenerse de ser un ente activo de conflicto bélico actual, aunque pudiera estar indultada de este tipo especial de actividad guerrera, en cualquier bando de una contienda.
Thank you for this contribution. What does neutrality look like to you, because it is also a source of controversy. Some believe that Switzerland is no longer a neutral country in this conflict and others believe that the Swiss neutrality policy puts the reputation and values of democratic Switzerland to the test. What is your opinion?
شكرا لك على هذه المساهمة. وكيف يبدو الحياد بالنسبة لك، لأنه أيضاً مصدر جدل، البعض يرى بأن سويسرا لم تعد دولة محايدة في هذا الصراع وآخرون يرون بأن سياسية الحياد السويسري تضع سمعة وقيم سويسرا الديمقراطية على المحك. ما هو رأيك؟
Hello
A minimum of political background makes the answer obvious. Who will win in and after the war? Neither the Civilians nor the Military... the industry owned by the international finance.
Fortunately Wisdom... has always guided...
For the Safety of the People. How it began? Why did it start? By Whom? The Right of Veto of the UN Council has just changed... I aspire to the Deep Economic Harmonious Peace and to the Right to Dignity and Physical Integrity and Moral Respect of the People Whatever the Countries and this in war or Peace... The great Mother Lucie BALLAMAN would have said that where she was born the inner Peace has always wanted the Security for its Nationals or its Visitors.
In the present case of course not being on both grounds therefore not direct Witness therefore I cannot have an opinion.personal...
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Bonjour
Un minimum de base politique rend la réponse évidente.Qui gagnera dans et après la guerre ? Ni les Civils ni les Militaires... l industrie détenue par la financé internationale.
Heureusement que La Sagesse... a Toujours guidé...
Pour La Sécurité des Personnes. Comment cela a commencé? Pourquoi? Par Qui ? Le Droit de Véto du Conseil ONU vient de changer...J aspire à la Paix profonde Économique Harmonieuse et et au Droit à La Dignité et Intégrité Physique et Respect Moral des Personnes Quelque soit les Pays et ce en guerre ou Paix... La grand Mère Lucie BALLAMAN aurait dit que la ou Elle née La Paix intérieure a toujours voulu la Sécurité pour ses Ressortissants ou ses Visiteurs .
Dans le cas présent bien sure n étant pas sur les deux terrains donc oas Temoin directe donc je ne peux avoir d opinion.personnelle ...
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Thank you for this contribution. But how can countries and peoples defend themselves against any aggression and free themselves without making weapons?
شكرا لك على هذه المساهمة. ولكن كيف يمكن للدول والشعوب الدفاع عن الذات ضد أي اعتداء وتحرير أنفسها بدون صناعة السلاح؟
Military aid to Ukraine is intensifying the war.
Despite this, we provide weapons to Ukraine because war is better than a Russian victory or one less democracy.
What do you think?
ウクライナへの軍事支援は戦争を激化させている。
にもかかわらずウクライナに兵器を供与するのは、ロシアが勝つことや、民主主義国が一つ減るより戦争のほうが良いからだ。
どうでしょう?
I'm sure there will be no peace when they prepare for war. This is a false phrase that should have been discarded a long time ago!
Я уверенна, когда, готовятся к войне мира не будет. Это фальшивая фраза от которой давно пора отказаться !
Humanity is still too underdeveloped to think beyond war…
I completely agree. The double morality of all leaders who care about the welfare of the oligarchs are not interested in the health and well-being of ordinary people. It seems to me that nationality is like a religion "divide and conquer".
In many British and American films it is clear that everything is done on the basis of the postulate of "Who benefits? The common people are poor, have cancer, insurance does not cover the cost, and the mafia gets richer.
Take care of yourself, do not drink alcohol, do not smoke, do not let anyone earn money on your health.
I do not trust any government.
Согласна полностью. Двойная мораль всех руководителей,которые заботятся о благе олигархов,не заинтересованы в здоровье и благополучии простых людей. Мне кажется,что национальность это типа как религия"разделяй и властвуй".
Во многих английских и американских фильмах уже видно, что делается все исходя из постулата "Кому выгодно?". Простой народ бедствует,болеет онкологией,страховки не покрывают расходы, а мафии богатеют.
Берегите себя, не пейте алкоголь,не курите,не давайте заработать на своем здоровье никому.
Не верю ни одному правительству.
Join the conversation!