What should happen next now that Swiss voters have approved the Covid pandemic policy?
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A majority of Swiss voters has backed the official pandemic policy, supporting the Covid-19 law for the second time.
This clears the way for measures against the fifth wave. So what does Switzerland need now? A new lockdown for everyone? A lockdown just for the unvaccinated? No lockdown but other new restrictions?
How do you see it from outside Switzerland?
From the article Voters again endorse Swiss government’s pandemic policy
In Switzerland, 66% of the population is vaccinated. We have seen from Germany and Austria that this percentage is far from sufficient and that we will soon be in the same situation as them.
Any measures taken today should have been taken yesterday. It is already too late to avoid a lockdown in my opinion.
However, any measure must be aimed at increasing the number of vaccinated people, limiting the number of infections and avoiding a lockdown as much as possible.
Looking at other countries Switzerland is light years behind. The measures to do for me would be:
- return to telework (unfortunately)
- Closing of discos and concerts (unfortunately)
- Compulsory vaccination for hospital and nursing staff
- 2G in bars and restaurants
- 3G at work for those who cannot telework
- 3G in trans-cantonal transport
- Third doses and vaccination of children 5-12 years old
- home schooling for unvaccinated children 12-19.
- reduction of the validity of the test to 24 hours
Then it takes an additional penalty for unvaccinated.
- increase health insurance for over 50
- no emergency priority for ICU care
The last point may sound horrible. But let's think that, during a wave like this, for every covid patient in the ICU there is someone who has had to forgo major surgery. Why should these people have to put their lives at risk because of someone who wouldn't get vaccinated? The unvaccinated need to start being responsible for their own decisions, not make others pay for them
There is too much respect in Switzerland and a harder hand is needed for the good of all, and for the good of the most fragile in this society
In the long term
- Compulsory vaccination for the over 50s
I would really like to return to live from next year ...
In Svizzera il 66% della popolazione è vaccinato. Abbiamo visto da Germania ed Austria che questa percentuale è largamente insufficiente e che tra poco saremo nella stessa situazione loro.
Qualsiasi misura presa oggi andava presa ieri. È già troppo tardi per evitare un lockdown secondo me.
Comunque, qualsiasi misura deve avere come obiettivo l'aumento dei vaccinati, il contenimento dei contagi, l'allontanamento di un lockdown il più possibile.
Guardando gli altri paesi la Svizzera è anni luce indietro. Le misure da fare per me sarebbero:
- ritorno al telelavoro (purtroppo)
- chiusura discoteche concerti (purtroppo)
- obbligo vaccinale per personale ospedaliero e di cura
- 2G in bar e ristoranti
- 3G a lavoro per chi non può fare telelavoro
- 3G nei trasporti trans-cantonali
- terze dosi e vaccinazione bambini 5-12
- home schooling per ragazzi non vaccinati da 12 a 19.
- riduzione della validità del test a 24 ore
Poi ci vuole un'ulteriore penalità per i non vaccinati.
- aumento assicurazione sanitaria per over 50
- nessuna priorità emergenziale per le cure in terapia intensiva
L'ultimo punto può sembrare orribile. Ma pensiamo che, durante un'onda come questa, per ogni malato covid in terapia intensiva c'è qualcuno che ha dovuto rinunciare ad un'operazione importante. Perché queste persone devono mettere a rischio la loro vita a causa di qualcuno che non si è voluto vaccinare? I non vaccinati devono iniziare a essere responsabili delle loro decisioni, non farle pagare agli altri
C'è troppo rispetto in Svizzera e ci vuole la mano più dura per il bene di tutti, e per il bene dei più fragili di questa società
A lungo termine
- vaccinazione obbligatoria per over 50
Vorrei davvero ritornare a vivere dal prossimo anno ...
The common good in this case is the public health that must be ensured by those who govern. All individual freedoms have limits, otherwise we end up with anarchy. Your freedom ends where mine begins. If your freedom not to vaccinate limits my freedom, and that of the vast majority of Europeans who have been vaccinated, to live a normal life, we have a problem. Can a minority affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people? Can a minority with its behaviors put at risk the economies of all countries?
Il bene comune in questo caso è la saluta pubblica che deve essere assicurata da chi governa. Tutte le libertà individuali hanno dei limiti altrimenti si sfocia nell'anarchia. La tua libertà finisce dove inizia la mia. Se la tua libertà di non vaccinarti limita la mia libertà, e quella della stragande maggioranza degli europei che si sono vaccinati, di vivere una vita normale, abbiamo un problema. Puo' una minoranza condizionare la vita di centinaia di milioni di persone? Puo' una minoranza con i propri comportamenti mettere a rischio le economie di tutti i paesi?
Too much to take away from your comment, your vision is set.
I will take this from your preamble:
"That sounds very good..."
Trop de choses à reprendre de votre commentaire, votre vison est tracée.
Je retiendrai ceci de votre préambule :
«Cela semble très bien...»
How effective is 10 day quarantine anyway? Imagine, I fly back from a trip to a dodgy country, with a negative antigen test, which was negative when I took it 48 hours before, or 72 hours if PCR. Then I catch Covid in between test and arrival. Or it's on my hands. Unless I can beam myself Star Trek style to my home, how many people will I infect getting there? Airport / train / bus / tram staff & passengers.
In aereo una decina almeno.
Dopo dipende dal tempo trascorso in treno/taxi etc e dall'affollamento
@CROM: We are miles away from compulsory vaccination in Switzerland. Federal Councillor Berset keeps emphasising: "[url=https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/interview-mit-alain-berset-wenn-es-die-situation-erfordern-wuerde-haetten-wir-mehr-gemacht]Vaccination is voluntary and will remain so[/url]."
@CROM: Wir sind in der Schweiz meilenweit entfernt von einem Impfzwang. Bundesrat Berset betont immer wieder: "[url=https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/interview-mit-alain-berset-wenn-es-die-situation-erfordern-wuerde-haetten-wir-mehr-gemacht]Die Impfung ist freiwillig und wird es auch bleiben[/url]."
@Crom: Please reflect on the origin of this debate. I asked about possible further action. Unlike many other comments in this thread, C. Stadelmann answers my question.
@Crom: Bitte besinnen Sie sich auf den Ursprung dieser Debatte. Ich habe nach möglichen weiteren Massnahmen gefragt. Im Gegensatz zu vielen anderen Kommentaren in diesem Thread, beantwortet C. Stadelmann meine Frage.
From France, the family tells me to come back for the covid. I feel safer where I am. Not because the French would be less conspiratorial or virulent, but because the state has acted decisively, clearly and unified there -- and because the French are making efforts to be supportive.
I trust the Federal Council, as I now trust the French government.
I also want a return to normalcy. Thanks to the vaccines, we are getting closer to that. But it's been two years and the figures are depressing. I'm tired of wearing the mask. I'm dreading another lockdown. Not so much for myself, I'm living it well, but for the economic and social cost. I blame the non-vaccinated a lot, whether it's reasonable or not. We. Want. To. End.
I don't know what measures will have to be taken, but they will be taken, and we can't thank the Federal Council enough for being so much more moderate, patient and understanding than we are.
(Oh yes, increasing aid for vaccination in other countries. I understand the importance of the third dose here, but we could do without a new variant every six months).
Depuis la France, la famille me dit de revenir pour le covid. Je me sens plus en sécurité où je suis. Pas parce que les français seraient moins conspirationnistes ni virulents, mais parce que l'État y a agi de façon résolue, claire et unifiée -- et parce que les français font des efforts pour être solidaires.
Je fais confiance au Conseil Fédéral, comme je fais désormais confiance au gouvernement français.
Je veux aussi un retour à la normale. Grâce aux vaccins, on s'en rapproche. Mais ça va faire deux ans et les chiffres sont déprimants. J'en ai marre de porter le masque. Je redoute un autre confinement. Pas tant pour moi, je le vis bien, que pour son coût économique et social. J'en veux beaucoup aux non-vaccinés, que ce soit raisonnable ou non. On. Veut. En. Finir.
Je ne sais pas quelles mesures il faudra prendre, mais on les prendra, et on ne remerciera jamais assez le Conseil Fédéral d'être tellement plus modéré, patient et compréhensif que nous.
(Ah si, augmenter l'aide à la vaccination dans les autres pays. Je comprends l'importance de la troisième dose ici mais on se passerait bien d'un nouveau variant tous les six mois.)
Not as far as I know. The way to court is of course open in Switzerland.
Soweit ich weiss nicht. Der Weg vor Gericht steht in der Schweiz natürlich offen.
I would disagree with you there. Vaccination reduces the risk of contracting and passing on the coronavirus - so you can protect yourself and vulnerable people in your family, household or work environment. [url=https://foph-coronavirus.ch/vaccination/why-vaccinate/]This has been scientifically proven[/url].
Da würde ich Ihnen widersprechen. Die Impfung verringert das Risiko, am Coronavirus zu erkranken und es weiterzugeben – so können Sie sich selbst und besonders gefährdete Personen in Ihrer Familie, Ihrem Haushalt oder Ihrem Arbeitsumfeld schützen. [url=https://foph-coronavirus.ch/vaccination/why-vaccinate/]Das ist wissenschaftlich erwiesen.[/url]
"for those who can see it..." Some of us have noticed that consumption during confinement has been reduced. When money arrives there is a desire to consume for unnecessary products. The restriction of foreign travel to the other side of the world has made some people realize that it has no impact on their morale. Have you seen the sky in the last 2 years? For the rest I agree with your comments.
"pour ceux qui savent le voir..." Parmi nous, des personnes ont remarqué que la consommation lors des confinements a été réduite. Quand l'argent arrive il y a un désir de consommer pour des produits non nécessaires. La restriction des voyages à l'étranger à l'autre bout du monde a fait réaliser à certaines personnes que cela n'avait pas d'impact sur leur moral. Avez-vous vu le ciel durant ces 2 dernières années ? Pour le reste je suis d'accord avec vos commentaires.
When I read the comments of some people, I tell myself that we will never get out of this pandemic. All this sterile fighting saddens me. In my humble opinion, if we want to get out of this pandemic, with what we know today, vigilance is required. The anti-vaxers who cry out that their freedom is being infringed upon are preventing this freedom for all. I took the vaccine, soon to be the third dose, I did it so that we could get out of this pandemic. I did it so that this virus would weaken, so that I wouldn't kill or endanger anyone close to me. I deplore the lack of solidarity and common sense among the antivaxers.
Quand je lis les commentaires de certains je me dis qu'on ne sortira jamais de cette pandémie. Toutes ces luttes stériles m'attristent. A mon humble avis, si on veut sortir de cette pandémie, avec ce qu'on en sait aujourd'hui, la vigilance est de mise. Les anti-vax qui crient à une atteinte à leur liberté empêchent justement cette liberté à tous. J'ai fait le vaccin, bientôt la 3e dose, je l'ai fait pour qu'on se sorte de cette pandémie. Pour que ce virus s'affaiblisse, pour ne tuer et ne mettre en danger aucun de mes proches. Je déplore le manque de solidarité et de bon sens chez les antivax.
Hello,
New Zealand does have a remarkable death toll. Are the measures you mention the reason? I haven't looked into it. One clue might be that you are counting Covid-19 deaths, whereas in Switzerland, and many other countries, they are counting Covid-19 deaths. If you exclude those who died with one or more pre-existing diseases (96% - h[url=https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/victimes-suisses-coronavirus]ttps://www.letemps.ch/suisse/victimes-suisses-coronavirus[/url]), the number of deaths drops to 460.
Bonjour,
La Nouvelle-Zélande présente effectivement un bilan en nombre de décès remarquable. Les mesures que vous évoquez en sont-elles la raison? Je n'ai pas creusé. Un indice pourrait être que vous comptabilisez les morts dues au Covid-19 alors qu'en Suisse, et dans bien d'autres pays, on compte les morts avec le Covid-19. Si l'on exclu les personnes décédées qui présentaient une ou plusieurs maladies préexistantes (96% - h[url=https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/victimes-suisses-coronavirus]ttps://www.letemps.ch/suisse/victimes-suisses-coronavirus[/url]), le nombre de décès tombe à 460.
David70: The article you mention is from April 15, 2020 -that is, from the beginning of the pandemic.
To get an up-to-date picture, I recommend the federal government's S[url=https://www.covid19.admin.ch/de/epidemiologic/death]eite on laboratory-confirmed deaths[/url].
David70: Der von Ihnen erwähnte Artikel stammt vom 15. April 2020 -also vom Anfang der Pandemie.
Um sich ein aktuelles Bild zu machen, empfehle ich Ihnen die S[url=https://www.covid19.admin.ch/de/epidemiologic/death]eite des Bundes über die laborbestätigten Todesfälle[/url].
The little people in Switzerland are sabotaging the national efforts to become normal again, with the help of the vaccination program.
I tried to register my booster shots in Zurich but was unable to. So I went to Zug and succeeded in registering but no dates were given.
I am under 65 years old and so I called Zug hotline to check. Their website says "all people regardless of residence" but their hotline person (sounded angry) when I explained I don't live in Zug but I could register in Zug.
She basically told me to bugger off. Even when I explained the Zug website to her, she said it is not possible because it is "the rule"!
Such people amongst us, will kill all of us by placing unnecessary and illogical obstacles in our way to vaccination.
I appreciate that some people will not want to vaccinate. That is their right and I can respect them for that, but when they stop me from vaccination with silly rules and grey zones, I think they are taking my rights out.
Swiss govt should not restrict their citizens and residents who have been administed with booster jab in addition to winter influenza vacccination. They need to show the vac cert and exempt from 10 days isolation. The most 4 days after test before 2nd day of arrival.
The people who chose to be vaccinated are expected to show solidarity with the unvaccinated by going under the lockdowns regardless of vaccination status.
But the unvaccinated are choosing their own paths (to possible infection and early deaths) while dragging us down their paths without our consent.
Now, re-read those sentences above again.
Who exactly? Can you substantiate what you claim?
Wer genau? Können Sie belegen was Sie behaupten?
Switzerland deserves a big slap on the back from Austria, for choosing to follow by its example, by taking yet another sure step towards Totalitarianism and a dystopian nightmare. The rest of us just need to laugh as much as possible and pretend it never happened. Otherwise it's just way too depressing really.
Die Schweiz ist übrigens das einzige Land der Welt, das über die Pandemiepolitik der Regierung abstimmen kann. Alles andere als totalitär, oder etwa nicht?
Magari la Svizzera avesse deciso di seguire l'Austria ....
The new 10 day quarantine rule from some EU countries no longer makes any sense. The initial justification was the new variant but now the new variant is everywhere including in Switzerland. How will Switzerland address this discrimination between nationalities and when ? We love your country and your citizens. We welcome you but hen will you start welcoming us again, and what is the justification for your definition of ‘us’ ?
I think the Federal Council did well so far, Switzerland is in a good position to make it thru the extended Covid time.
The expansion of the Covid Certificate would be great as that would keep Business open for People but still ensuring some Safety. Just not on Public Transport. That should stay available to All.
I would also recommend they make the 5 Monthly At Home tests available again free of charge for unvaccinated people. No Covid Certificate from these, but this will allow people who are Unvaccinated to safely Socialize with Friends and Family on their own.
I do not want to Isolate myself from my Unvaccinated friends and Family, but as I do not know my Own Anti Body status I also do not want to add Risk for myself by socializing with them. This might help a bit with Social Cohesion.
Let the BAG Manage the Intensive care beds but increasing lockdown measures as capacity decrease, but as most are Un Vaccinated maybe reduce that threshold a bit to give the Staff a bit of breathing room. The Un Vaccinated cannot expect Hospital Staff to continue at the current pace due to their choices.
Unvaccinated people do not believe in covid or the vaccines. That is why they don't take the vaccine.
Why would they even take tests? They don't care and they don't believe the virus will kill them or anyone who comes into contact with them.
They think they know BETTER than the scientists and virologists who have been advising the BAG.
The best way is the Singapore way: When these unvaccinated people get the virus, they need to pay extra for the medical treatments.
A driver with no experience and a driver with 20 years experience are given different insurance premiums to pay. Why? Because of the risk profiles.
Also a driver with a license is allowed to drive legally on the roads. Why not the same with health?
Vielen Dank für die Beantwortung unserer Frage und die konkreten Vorschläge für weitere Massnahmen.
I find it VERY concerning the amount of comments here that seem to be pro-authortarian, if not communist in thinking. Wanting to segregate a society over a virus that has about a 99.9% survival rate, before vaccination. If you are that scared of contracting this virus, then segregate yourself. Let the rest of society go on as they please.
Was ist genau kommunistisch an einem demokratisch legitimierten und per zweifachen Abstimmung legitimierten Vorgehen zur Pandemiebekämpfung?
The actual survival rate is 98% which doesn't include the long term damage this virus causes among many survivors.
Living in a civilised society means helping protect one another including those who are vulnerable. Since when did helping protect one another become “authoritarian” or “communist”???
Instead of asking others to segregate themselves, perhaps people like you should do so instead, since you seem to oppose any measures to protect society.
Inform yourself please. Vaccine and virus do not work like you imagined.
Same thing happened when Polio was the virus. Many people were dying and many people were saying it was okay.
You can be sure that constitutional lawyers were consulted in advance, that is customary in the Swiss legislative process.
And who exactly is supposed to have urged the federal government to do this?
Sie können sicher sein, dass Verfassungsrechtler im Vorfeld konsultiert worden sind, das ist im schweizerischen Gesetzgebungsprozess üblich.
Und wer genau soll die Bundesregierung dazu gedrängt haben?
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