What distinguishes war crimes from other criminal offences?
After Russia invaded Ukraine in early 2022, the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague began investigating alleged crimes against humanity and war crimes in Ukraine.
Neither Ukraine nor Russia is party to the Rome Statute, the treaty that established the ICC. The court cannot exercise jurisdiction over crimes by non-member states, so Ukraine is seeking backing for a special war crimes tribunal, in addition to the investigation by the ICC. This special tribunal would focus exclusively on the Russian crime of aggression against Ukraine and would aim to hold the Russian military and political elite responsible for the war.
How do you understand the term “war crimes”? What distinguishes war crimes from other criminal offences? Should war crimes be tried as criminal offences? Join the discussion!
Mah, I think by crime we can define all those behaviors that go beyond simply defending oneself, such as, for example, abuse, violence and torture. I do not see much difference from the same criminal offenses, the difference remains only in the "motive"; one is for war other for personal choice (more or less autonomous)
In war crimes we can also imply the dictatorship of these behaviors, while in criminal offenses no, it is a free fact of the subject.
Of course how to try these crimes becomes difficult, it would be good to set up a commission that sentences, then, to community service for the rest of life, with minimum state salary and prohibition of extradition.
Mah, credo con crimine si possano definire tutti quei comportamenti che vanno oltre il semplice difendersi, come, per esempio abusi, violenze e torture. Non vedo grandi differenze dagli stessi reati penali, la differenza resta solo nel "movente"; uno è per guerra altro per scelta personale (più o meno autonoma)
Nei crimini di guerra possiamo implicare anche la dittatura di questi comportamenti, mentre nei reati penali no, è un fatto libero del soggetto.
Certo come processare questi crimini diventa difficile, sarebbe bene istituire una commissione che condanni, poi, a lavori socialmente utili per il resto della vita, con stipendio statale minimo e divieto di estradizione.
Madame Larisa, I want to answer you with my sad story. I was born in Leningrad in 1947, my father lived here during the entire blockade, my husband died of oncology at the age of 56, he had noble roots, his paternal grandparents were repressed and shot, his surname was given in an orphanage, I still live under this surname. My youngest daughter died at the age of 39 from a brain tumor, was treated all the time paid, from the state no disability pensions were not. My eldest daughter and I sold our garden plot and bought an apartment in Estonia to live in freedom near a pine forest. I and my husband have never been in the CPSU, i.e. had nothing from the state (no positions, no dissertations) I have 60 years of experience.
But now we are not allowed on a Schengen visa in our apartment.What is our fault? I think that everyone could write his war and peace, but will anyone read it?
Мадам Лариса,хочу ответить Вам своей грустной историей. Я родилась в Ленинграде в 1947 году,мой отец всю блокаду жил здесь,муж умер от онкологии в 56 лет, он имел дворянские корни, его бабушка и дедушка по отцу были репрессированы и расстреляны, фамилию дали в приюте, я до сих пор живу под этой фамилией. Моя младшая дочь умерла в 39 лет от опухоли головного мозга,лечилась все время платно,от государства никаких пенсий по инвалидности не было. Мы со старшей дочерью,продав садовый участок ,купили квартирку в Эстонии, чтобы пожить на свободе около соснового леса. Я и мой муж никогда не были в КПСС, т.е.ничего от государства не имели(ни должностей,ни диссертаций) у меня стаж 60 лет.
Но нас теперь не пускают по шенгенской визе в свою квартиру.В чем виноваты мы? Думаю, что каждый мог написать свою войну и мир,но будет ли кому это читать?
Although Russia is not a party to the Rome Statute establishing the International Criminal Court, legally and according to the Court's Statute, its jurisdiction can be extended to non-party States if the Security Council refers to the Court any case in which crimes within the Court's jurisdiction are suspected, regardless of whether the State is a party or not. The Court can also file a case against persons belonging to a non-party State if they commit crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court within the territory of a State party or have accepted the Court's jurisdiction. On this basis, the Court has issued an order to prosecute Russian President Putin because Ukraine I accepted the jurisdiction of the Court after Russia's occupation of Crimea in 2014.
However, the problem here is political rather than legal. While the court is moving to charge Putin, Colonel Gaddafi, his son and other African leaders, we find it doing nothing about the flood of Israeli crimes in the occupied Palestinian territories, as well as American war crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan and other parts of the world!
على الرغم من أن روسيا ليست طرفاً في نظام روما المنشئ للمحكمة الجنائية الدولية ، إلا أنه من الناحية القانونية ووفقاً لنظام المحكمة ، فإن ولايتها القضائية يمكن أن تمتد إلى الدول غير الأطراف ، إذا ما أحال مجلس الأمن للمحكمة أية حالة يشتبه من خلالها بوقوع جرائم تدخل في اختصاص المحكمة بغض النظر عما إذا كانت الدولة طرفاً أم لا ، كما أن المحكمة تستطيع أن تحرك الدعوى ضد الأشخاص الذين ينتمون لدولة غير طرف إذا ما ارتكب هؤلاء جرائم تدخل ضمن اختصاص المحكمة داخل إقليم دولة طرف أو قبلت باختصاص المحكمة ، وعلى هذا الأساس أصدرت المحكمة أمراً بملاحقة الرئيس الروسي بوتن لأن أوكرانيا قبلت باختصاص المحكمة غداة احتلال روسيا لشبه جزيرة القرم عام 2014 .
غير أن الإشكالية هنا سياسية وليست قانونية، ففي الوقت الذي تتحرك فيه المحكمة لاتهام بوتن ومن قبله العقيد القذافي ونجله وغيرهم من القادة الأفارقة، نجدها لا تحرك ساكناً تجاه سيل الجرائم الإسرائيلية في الأراضي الفلسطينية المحتلة ، فضلاً عن جرائم الحرب الأمريكية في العراق وأفغانستان وغيرها من أصقاع الأرض !
Swissinfo.ch have become more in this direction since I've lived in Switzerland.
Your point is very valid in my opinion.
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War crimes must be enforced in accordance with international law.
They should not be arbitrarily administered as in World War II and subsequent wars and conflicts.
I believe that war crimes on the Ukrainian side, if any, must be tried in the same way as war crimes in Russia, if any, in this case as well.
戦争犯罪は国際的な法に基づいて執行されなければならない。
第二次世界大戦やその後の戦争、紛争のように恣意的に運用されてはならない。
今回も、ウクライナ側の戦争犯罪も、もしあるならば、ロシアの戦争犯罪と同じように裁かれなければならないと思う。
America sent troops under Weapons of Mass Destruction to Iraq and now we all know it was a lie and yet those politicians.. including Tony Blair, have not been tried... so whilst I could agree with your opinion, the truth is that the 'the International Criminal Court (ICC) ' pick and choose who they want to send to trial...
Should the Catholic Church go to jail because they supported Hitler only because they didn't want Communism to win?
Should Australian politicians go to jail for sending in troops to Vietnam?
Russell Brand is credited for saying: The State can murder/be as violent as they want but an individual cannot.
The criminal offense must always be typified under a basic legislation, which certifies it, which does not imply that the offender can be punished for a serious action, to a greater or lesser extent, taking into account aggravating or mitigating factors in each specific judicial file. In principle, the war crime must be exposed as a serious action, but without losing the perspective that in a war conflict, since the armed forces, like any other type, can cause deaths, wounded and refugees in a conflict. It is true that both actions can be criminally serious, but with a character in principle of greater gravity in war crimes, leading to a historical memory of difficult solution and in many cases with historical financial liabilities of great dimension, for the offenders and their relatives or direct relatives, as in the case of the different European ultra-right movements that have occurred historically until the present time.
El delito penal debe ser siempre tipificado bajo una legislación básica, que así lo certifique, lo cual no implica que el infractor pueda ser castigado por una acción grave, en mayor o menor medida, teniendo en cuenta agravantes o atenuantes en cada expediente judicial concreto. En principio, el crimen de guerra, debe ser expuesto como una acción grave pero sin perder la perspectiva que en un conflicto bélico, ya que las fuerzas armadas como de cualquier otro tipo, pueden causar muertes, heridos y refugiados en una contienda. Es verdad que las dos acciones pueden ser penalmente graves, pero con un carácter en principio de mayor gravedad, en los crímenes de guerra, conllevando una memoria histórica de difícil solución y en muchos casos con pasivos financieros históricos de gran dimensión, para los infractores y familiares o allegados directos, como en el caso de los diferentes movimientos ultraderechistas europeos acaecidos históricamente hasta el momento actual.
Too many people are manipulated by fear and hate. It's easy to rationalize war when the "enemy" is evil and "we" are the good guys. Humans clearly have some evolving to do before we can eliminate wars.
Isn't the failure to provide aid in the earthquake zone, or the prevention of aid by blocking national borders, also a form of passive warfare and war crimes, apart from the fact that earthquake zones are bombed?
Is the lack of criticism and intervention by democratic countries not also a failure to provide aid?
Ist unterlassene Hilfeleistung im Erdbebengebiet, bzw. Verhinderung von Hilfeleistung durch Blockade von Landesgrenzen nicht auch eine Form von passiver Kriegsführung und Kriegsverbrechen, abgesehen davon, dass Erdbebengebiet bombardiert werden?
Ist fehlende Kritik und Interventionen der demokratischen Länder nicht auch unterlassene Hilfeleistung?
Meiner Meinung nach muss zwischen dem aktiven Schließen der Grenze in Notzeiten (was ein Kriegsverbrechen ist) und dem Vermeiden humanitärer Hilfe (was ein unmoralischer Akt ist) unterschieden werden.
I see a difference between an earthquake and a war. Even though natural disasters kill people and it also pains me to see these unnecessary deaths, I cannot compare the deaths from bullets and bombs with those in disasters
Ich sehe einen Unterschied zwischen einem Erdbeben und einem Krieg. Auch wenn Naturkatastrophen Menschen töten und es mich auch schmerzt, diese unnötigen Todesfälle zu sehen, kann ich die Todesfälle durch Kugeln und Bomben nicht mit denen bei Katastrophen vergleichen
I think peoples individual Karma will reveal this in the end.
I face this every day here in Switzerland with the beggars.
If I dislike them and refuse to give them money, am I not party to their suffering??
if I give them money and they spend it on, example, drugs - am I not responsible for their condition.
I like your post a lot..
The USA pulled out of Afghanistan - for sure there were other countries doing their so called best to influence that country, but are they not a little bit responsible for the mess that is now ensuing? Maybe so called Democratic countries should stop acting like Christian Missionaries and make sure their own country is in order first??
Any "special tribunal" is a sampling according to some principle. It cannot be objective. Will Russia be included in this tribunal? Of course not. The very wording of the creation of the tribunal rejects the principle of objectivity.
We have the United Nations. Whether it is good or not is a topic for a separate discussion. But it is the ONLY international institution recognized by everyone. And questions of war and peace are the competence of the UN.
And let's create a tribunal for war crimes of Ukraine? Invite the DPRK, Iran, and the rest of the list.
I would also shut down the EEC for violating its own charter documents, through some kind of tribunal. I do not remember a single article in the founding documents to solve any military problems.
Любой "специальный трибунал" - это выборка по какому то принципу. Он не может быть объективен. А Россия войдёт в этот трибунал? Конечно нет. Сама формулировка создания трибунала отметает принцип объективности.
У нас есть ООН. Хороша она или нет, это тема отдельной дискуссии. НО это ЕДИНСТВЕННЫЙ всеми признанный междкнародный институт. И вопросы войны и мира - это компетенция ООН.
А давайте создадим трибунал по военным преступлениям Украины? Пригласим КНДР, Иран и дальше посписку.
Ещё бы я прикрыл ЕЭС за нарушение собственных уставных документов, через какой нибудь трибунал. Не помню ни одной статьи в основополагающих документах о решении любых военных проблем.
The accused cannot be the judge,
And the UN can do nothing against Russia, because, unfortunately, Russia has a veto power.
Обвиняемый не может быть судьей,
И ООН ничего не может сделать против России, потому что, к сожалению, у России есть право вето.
the UN have no real power, full stop!
They are just a organisation, not voted in by Citizens (so not a democratic organisation in my thinking), that I think are trying to use coercive control in order to get citizens used to the idea of one body ruling the world... but one can see that this is a power game as the UN has not managed to stop poverty or things, like sanctions, that affect citizens more than the wealthy or politicians.
War crimes are more serious than "ordinary crimes".
"Ordinary crimes" are in most cases committed by people in the heat of the moment and harm individual people.
On the other hand, war crimes are in most cases done in a cynical and calculated way and harm millions.
In my opinion you are confusing "war crimes" and "war as crime."
Besides: it is by no means a rule that "ordinary" crimes are committed in the heat of the moment. A false accounting is certainly not, nor is a Mafia vendetta against the family of a "turncoat."
As for seriousness, I would have something to say about that as well. I give an example staying in my own unfortunate country: it does not seem to me that the decision not to carry out due maintenance on a highway bridge, taken "coldly" in an office for the purpose of saving money, and resulting in the collapse of the bridge and 43 deaths, is any less serious than the mistaken attack of unarmed civilians by two military helicopters that resulted in 18 deaths (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacco_aereo_del_12_luglio_2007_a_Baghdad).
Secondo me stai confondendo "crimini di guerra" e "guerra come crimine".
Oltretutto: non è affatto una regola che i crimini "ordinari" vengano commessi nella foga del momento. Un falso in bilancio di sicuro non lo è, così come non lo è una vendetta mafiosa contro la famiglia di un "pentito".
Quanto alla gravità, avrei da ridire anche su questo. Faccio un esempio restando nel mio sfortunato paese: non mi sembra che la decisione di non eseguire la dovuta manutenzione su un ponte autostradale, presa "a freddo" in un ufficio allo scopo di risparmiare soldi, ed a cui è conseguito il crollo del ponte e 43 morti, sia meno grave dell'attacco per errore di civili inermi da parte di due elicotteri militari che ha causato 18 morti (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacco_aereo_del_12_luglio_2007_a_Baghdad).
Bear with me, Ms. Larissa (no exclamation point), but retorts that sound like rebuttals, moreover full of platitudes, from people whose last name implies utter partisanship, frankly I don't know what to make of them.
As already mentioned: what happened in the Donbas in unprecedented times, well before the invasion, as well as in Odessa, we ALL knew. Porošenko's speech ("Our children will go to school and playgrounds, theirs will have to hole up in basements") we all know. Putin is probably a war criminal, but the Ukrainian state has certainly proved no less. I am saying this. A war crimes trial will never happen, because it would be decidedly, unbearably too hypocritical to pretend not to see what Ukraine has done: and that would not be tolerable.
Abbia pazienza signora Larissa (senza punto esclamativo), ma di repliche che suonano come rimbrotti, per di più piene di banalità, da parte di persone il cui cognome implica la più totale partigianeria, francamente non so cosa farmene.
Come già detto: ciò che è accaduto nel Donbas in tempi non sospetti, ben prima dell'invasione, nonché ad Odessa, lo abbiamo saputo TUTTI. Il discorso di Porošenko ("I nostri figli andranno a scuola e nei parchi giochi, i loro si dovranno rintanare nei seminterrati") lo conosciamo tutti. Putin probabilmente è un criminale di guerra, ma lo stato ucraino non si è certo dimostrato da meno. Sto dicendo questo. Un processo ai crimini di guerra non ci sarà mai, perché sarebbe decisamente, insopportabilmente troppo ipocrita far finta di non vedere cosa ha fatto l'Ucraina: e questo non sarebbe tollerabile.
Aren't all wars crimes? Started by narcissistic, power hungry men who willingly sacrifice the lives of the powerless to achieve their selfish goals? Even the best government models struggle to reign in these evil creatures. Unfortunately, there are still too many nation states where such monsters can manipulate their way into unfettered power and impose their will on the weak to reek havoc on world. Unfortunately, such is the human condition. The solution is better government models where power is diluted to the point where no one human can impose their malicious will on others. The free world must resist the temptation to acquiesce to these people as they see weakness as opportunity to expand their unquenchable thirst for more power.
May we suggest to you the back story to the Trojan War, how the goddess Eris with the apple of discord and the mental failure of the gods led to the Trojan War?
Darf man Ihnen die Vorgeschichte zum trojanischen Krieg nahe legen, wie die Göttin Eris mit dem Zankapfel und das mentalen Versagen der Götter zum trojanischen Krieg führte?
First of all, war crimes must be judged in accordance with the laws adopted by the UN and apply to those countries that have approved them. In this respect, war crimes are no different from other crimes, but war laws and courts should have their own specifics.
Прежде всего военные преступления должны оцениваться в соответствии с принятыми в ООН законами и касаться тех стран, которые одобрили их. В этом военные преступления ничем не отличаются от остальных.А вот сами военные законы и суды должны иметь свою специфику.
The term "war crimes" has existed since the middle of the last century, but it is not tried for all, but selectively.
The Convention against Torture was adopted a long time ago, but almost no one is tried for torture either.
A fair trial?
Ha-ha-ha!
Термин "Военные преступления" существует с середины прошлого века, но судят за них не всех, а выборочно.
Конвенция против пыток принята тоже очень давно, нл за пытки тоже почти никого не судят.
Справедливый суд?
Ха-ха-ха!
because of the current Russian Ukraine conflict. I thought of this one day: are sanctions the same as torture?
All crimes should be treated equally, regardless of war or peace, gender, nationality, skin colour, etc, etc. Time and time again, you see a judge being more lenient on a woman, than a man who committed the same crime, or a white person v a non-white. War crimes are crimes. Just because some politician, leader, dictator wanted more and led people into war, any crime should be punished. It might actually prevent wars.
It is correct that all should be treated equally. Only, that contradicts the power thinking of some powerful ones; when Rome was founded, women were robbed purposefully (robbery of the Sabinerinnen). And when in the first Punic war a city offered itself to the Romans the Strin then as punishment all men, also all male infants, were murdered. Women and infants were kept as serfs or sold to brothels.
Furthermore, what is the purpose of a punishment?
Ansich richtig dass alle gleich behandelt werden sollten. Nur, dem widerspricht das Machtdenken von manchen Mächtigen; als Rom gegründet wurde, wurden gezielt Frauen geraubt (Raub der Sabinerinnen). Und als sich im ersten punischen Krieg eine Stadt den Römern die Strin bot wurde dann zur Strafe alle Männer, auch alle männlichen Säuglinge, ermordet. Frauen und weigliche Säuglinge hingegen wurde als Leibeigene gehalten oder an Bordelle verkauft.
Des weiteren, was ist der Sinn und Zweck einer Strafe?
Usted entiende espanol? Yo no entiendo ruso...Asi que por que se me manda un comentario que no logro traducir y no logro leer/entender.
I would much rather have a debate on the reasons behind this conflict and why the Swiss media is censoring anyone who does not support Ukraine?
As always, ordinary people who do not have any material interests suffer. And all the oligarchs and rat kings are not punished in any way, because it is at their behest that everything happens. As Saltykov-Shchedrin said, "If the state needs something from you, it starts calling itself a motherland.
Страдает как всегда простой народ,который не имеет никаких материальных интересов. А все олигархи и крысиные короли никак не наказаны, потому что это с их подачи все происходит. Как говорил Салтыков-Щедрин,"если государству от вас что-то нужно,оно начинает называть себя родиной".
For my part, I wonder if it will be very easy from now on for Putin and his close friends to travel or to stay on vacation in the heart of the states that are striving to develop and maintain - as best they can - a democratic mode of governance and an effort to deploy the principle of human rights. It seems to me that the extraordinary capacity of this individual to spread crimes, destruction, imprisonment, and poisoning for decades - in order to assure himself until the end of his life the comfort of palaces, palaces, and yachts (all oversized) - will no longer attract him only friends on our Planet. But there is no doubt that in his advanced age, social gatherings and travels will no longer exert as much attraction and pleasure on his person; nor will they be as useful, given the degree of superhuman perfection that his intellectual and ethical achievement has reached.
Pour ma part, je me demande s'il sera très simple désormais pour Poutine et ses proches amis, de voyager ou de séjourner en vacances au coeur des États qui s'appliquent à développer et à maintenir de leur mieux en équilibre - un mode de gourvernance démocratique ainsi qu'un effort pour déployer le principe des Droits humains. Il me semble que la capacité hors norme de cet individu à répandre durant des décennies : crimes, destructions, emprisonnements, et empoisonnements - afin de s'assurer jusqu'à la fin de son parcours de vie le confort de palais, palaces, et yachts (tous surdimensionnés) - ne va plus lui attirer que des amis sur notre Planète. Mais nul doute qu'à son äge avancé, les rencontres de sociabilité et les voyages n'exercent plus autant d'attrait et d'agrément sur sa personne ; ni d'utilité d'ailleurs. compte tenu du degré de perfectionnement surhumain qu'a atteint son accomplissement intellectuel et éthique.
The issue of travel is not (anymore) relevant for Vladimir Putin at the moment, you are right. And for the Ukrainian president, the question that matters is: "I don't understand if Putin is alive and who makes the decisions. He said this via video conference on the sidelines of the Davos Economic Forum
La question des voyages n'est pas (plus) pertinente pour Vladimir Poutine en ce moment, vous avez raison. Et pour le président ukrainien, la question qui compte est la suivante : "Je ne comprends pas si Poutine est vivant et qui prend les décisions. Il a declaré cela par visio-conférence en marge du Forum économique de Davos
I go by feelings but I also go by what different media outlets bring as 'news'. As for the North American media...I don't even bother with it knowing how much of 'news' is more propaganda than anything else - lies a separate thing. I peruse various international news outlets and compare articles...what does A say, what does B say...and so on. And this is how I form my opinion.
War is war lets not lose sight of the real villain here, I have a few issues the first is didn't the west give Gorbachev guarantees regarding nato presence in the buffering ukraine, second is if we manage to tip 100 million souls off their mortal coils through climate catastrophe are we going to trial successive western government's for crimes of genocide, I doubt it, yet since pre ww1 they have had a proactive solution to the climate issue, whether you choose to believe it or not, but if you look hard enough you might find a clue at the zurich uni
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